3 ms·

Not everyone has the luxury or desire for a "gradual process", but may have at least a sensible starting fund and the motivation to make it work. Sometimes the

Not everyone has the luxury or desire for a "gradual process", but may have at least a sensible starting fund and the motivation to make it work. Sometimes the window of opportunity is small, and diving in fast is important (say, realize you have to grow your own food and spring is progressing - if you don't plant ASAP you're not getting to harvest). I've long considered a similar "in a [shipping container] box" for fast-start retail establishments. Have access to retail space? have just days/hours to put up a fast-food shop? won't be perfect, but the box contains what you need to get a functioning restaurant delivered & running in hours. Likewise I can appreciate an "in a box" for a farm; get some cheap land and get what you need to reach harvest before snowfall.

maxerickson 10y ago
I think if you have $50,000 you probably aren't really worried about what you will be eating in 5 months.
- ctdonath 10y ago
  Supply chain and employment aren't guaranteed. Dependents need be fed. For some of us, self-sufficiency is axiomatic and dropping $50k for a starter box might seem sensible.
  - wiredfool 10y ago
    A 50K box isn't going to make you self sufficient, especially without a supply chain for the farming supplies. If you want to be self sufficient, you're going to end up being a farmer first, and whatever else you are later.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    So the trucks will reliably deliver the $50,000 of valuable agricultural equipment but not $5000 of pasta? I understand the idea of becoming self sufficient. It's the idea of spending $50,000 to make it happen because it suddenly became urgent that I think is not very realistic. (of course 10 man-years of pasta is not an exciting nutritional adventure. I'd argue it's far more pragmatic than hoping you figure out how to farm in 8 weeks...)
    - VLM 10y ago
      If you're more than self sufficient you're of inherent value to your self sufficient rural neighbors and can expect a long happy life. If you have $5K of easily movable commodity dollars, gold, pasta, in your basement, you're of value in another way, and you're probably not going to like that outcome.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        So hard. If we end up in a world where neighbors are shooting neighbors for pasta I hope someone gets me quick. I guess I'll make at least 1 tasty meal, even for a big band of brigands. The post I initially responded to wasn't about self sufficiency, it was about buying it in a box and making it work in 1 season. I replied about the making it work in 1 season not being a particularly likely thing. Hence buying an easily movable commodity probably being a better use of the money, even if you aren't a cold blooded crack shot.
        VLM 10y ago
        I guess I was looking at it from a long term community perspective rather than just brutality. If in the long run you're a net positive to the neighbors you'll be "in" and life will be very good. Everyone loves the village blacksmith or brewer or fellow farmer or whatever. On the other hand if you don't bring something to the table or just have a shopping bag of temporary loot then life will be much harder without the community.
        maxerickson 10y ago
        You think the $50,000 kit is relevant in that perspective? Or is it something like 10 years of practice that is relevant?
silencio 10y ago
Speaking as a restaurant owner, the constraint with setting up and running a restaurant is rarely with equipment. I can pretty much just order exactly what I want from Costco/Sysco/US Foods/local restaurant suppliers complete with design consultations and same-day delivery and installation - the limit is the hit that my wallet can take. What would a shipping container change for the audience that most likely has access to much of the same that I do? (Read: pretty much anywhere in first world countries, the difference is likely just a couple more days tacked on for delivery. Beyond that you're probably gonna hit the money wall very quickly - as if it wasn't difficult enough for me to fund restaurant upgrades, forcing me to rely on business credit lines.)

maxerickson 10y ago

I think if you have $50,000 you probably aren't really worried about what you will be eating in 5 months.

ctdonath 10y ago
Supply chain and employment aren't guaranteed. Dependents need be fed. For some of us, self-sufficiency is axiomatic and dropping $50k for a starter box might seem sensible.
- wiredfool 10y ago
  A 50K box isn't going to make you self sufficient, especially without a supply chain for the farming supplies. If you want to be self sufficient, you're going to end up being a farmer first, and whatever else you are later.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  So the trucks will reliably deliver the $50,000 of valuable agricultural equipment but not $5000 of pasta? I understand the idea of becoming self sufficient. It's the idea of spending $50,000 to make it happen because it suddenly became urgent that I think is not very realistic. (of course 10 man-years of pasta is not an exciting nutritional adventure. I'd argue it's far more pragmatic than hoping you figure out how to farm in 8 weeks...)
  - VLM 10y ago
    If you're more than self sufficient you're of inherent value to your self sufficient rural neighbors and can expect a long happy life. If you have $5K of easily movable commodity dollars, gold, pasta, in your basement, you're of value in another way, and you're probably not going to like that outcome.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      So hard. If we end up in a world where neighbors are shooting neighbors for pasta I hope someone gets me quick. I guess I'll make at least 1 tasty meal, even for a big band of brigands. The post I initially responded to wasn't about self sufficiency, it was about buying it in a box and making it work in 1 season. I replied about the making it work in 1 season not being a particularly likely thing. Hence buying an easily movable commodity probably being a better use of the money, even if you aren't a cold blooded crack shot.
      - VLM 10y ago
        I guess I was looking at it from a long term community perspective rather than just brutality. If in the long run you're a net positive to the neighbors you'll be "in" and life will be very good. Everyone loves the village blacksmith or brewer or fellow farmer or whatever. On the other hand if you don't bring something to the table or just have a shopping bag of temporary loot then life will be much harder without the community.
        maxerickson 10y ago
        You think the $50,000 kit is relevant in that perspective? Or is it something like 10 years of practice that is relevant?

silencio 10y ago

Speaking as a restaurant owner, the constraint with setting up and running a restaurant is rarely with equipment. I can pretty much just order exactly what I want from Costco/Sysco/US Foods/local restaurant suppliers complete with design consultations and same-day delivery and installation - the limit is the hit that my wallet can take. What would a shipping container change for the audience that most likely has access to much of the same that I do? (Read: pretty much anywhere in first world countries, the difference is likely just a couple more days tacked on for delivery. Beyond that you're probably gonna hit the money wall very quickly - as if it wasn't difficult enough for me to fund restaurant upgrades, forcing me to rely on business credit lines.)