4 ms·

Welding is not a routine job. Good welders make pretty good money.

jimmywanger 10y ago
I don't think they were talking about welders, but welding machine operators. https://job-descriptions.careerplanner.com/Welding-Machine-Operators-and-Tenders.cfm https://job-descriptions.careerplanner.com/Welding-Machine-O... From this job description it seems like a job that is very easily automated, as you're not doing anything interesting, just feeding the machine and making small adjustments.
bryanlarsen 10y ago
Routine doesn't necessarily mean low skill or low pay, it just means that you do pretty much the same thing from day to day. There are probably surgeons out there who have fairly routine jobs, make half a million dollars a year doing it, and earn every penny.
- ghaff 10y ago
  I'd add that there are a fair number of jobs that are pretty routine--until they're not. (At least today, pilots are a good example.)
badlucklottery 10y ago
I agree that what remains of welding work isn't a routine job for sure. I think the article is discussing the repetitive, low to medium skill welding and machine babysitting that has been automated or is just plain unnecessary with new manufacturing processes. What's left is the higher skill and un-automatable welding work.
tptacek 10y ago
Be a little careful with the terminology here. If you drill down into the research, they're referring to the cognitive/manual routine/non-routine quadrants. Typical illustrative examples would be: Routine/Manual: Factory line work Routine/Cognitive: Retail clerk Non-Routine/Manual: Truck driver Non-Routine/Cognitive: Software developer In this scheme, every job falls into one of those four quadrants. I agree, welding (probably most of the "trades") are "non-routine/manual".
chrisseaton 10y ago
Welding is also just about the least middle-class job I can think of.
- knieveltech 10y ago
  That's only true if you define "middle-class" as white collar. Welders make decent money, 35-60k on average for bog standard fabrication work. Easy to double those figures working for the oil and gas industries. Welders that can cert to Nuclear industry standards can easily triple those figure, and underwater welders can make over $300k in a year.
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    > That's only true if you define "middle-class" as white collar. Isn't that how everyone defines it? University educated, cultured, white collar workers? To me, middle-class means a doctor, lawyer, teacher, regulated professionals, things like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22gCw4iDdu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22gCw4iDdu4
    - knieveltech 10y ago
      No, or it's growing less common outside of academic circles. It is frequently used (especially in popular media) to denote little beyond personal income. See dragonwriter's comment for a thumbnail critique of the practice.
    - wavefunction 10y ago
      Folks who worked in manufacturing plants like automobile factories were considered part of the middle class, before neoliberal globalism reduced their earning potential and employment opportunities.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        For a while, people who worked in manufacturing jobs, saved and invested surplus income over a career, etc., could often reach the classic capitalist-economy definition of middle class (neither predominantly dependent on wage labor nor having enough capital to meet support needs plus accumulate more capital purely by renting others labor to apply to the capital) by late in their career. That is no longer as attainable as it once was. (Neoliberal globalism is part of the problem, but in the US specifically domestic tax reform to shift the burden from upper income earners to lower-to-middle-income workers over time, particularly the enormous shift under Reagan, is more specifically the problem, and not really connected to neoliberal globalization except that there is some overlap in political support.)

I don't think they were talking about welders, but welding machine operators. https://job-descriptions.careerplanner.com/Welding-Machine-Operators-and-Tenders.cfm https://job-descriptions.careerplanner.com/Welding-Machine-O... From this job description it seems like a job that is very easily automated, as you're not doing anything interesting, just feeding the machine and making small adjustments.

bryanlarsen 10y ago

Routine doesn't necessarily mean low skill or low pay, it just means that you do pretty much the same thing from day to day. There are probably surgeons out there who have fairly routine jobs, make half a million dollars a year doing it, and earn every penny.

ghaff 10y ago
I'd add that there are a fair number of jobs that are pretty routine--until they're not. (At least today, pilots are a good example.)

badlucklottery 10y ago

I agree that what remains of welding work isn't a routine job for sure. I think the article is discussing the repetitive, low to medium skill welding and machine babysitting that has been automated or is just plain unnecessary with new manufacturing processes. What's left is the higher skill and un-automatable welding work.

tptacek 10y ago

Be a little careful with the terminology here. If you drill down into the research, they're referring to the cognitive/manual routine/non-routine quadrants. Typical illustrative examples would be: Routine/Manual: Factory line work Routine/Cognitive: Retail clerk Non-Routine/Manual: Truck driver Non-Routine/Cognitive: Software developer In this scheme, every job falls into one of those four quadrants. I agree, welding (probably most of the "trades") are "non-routine/manual".

chrisseaton 10y ago

Welding is also just about the least middle-class job I can think of.

knieveltech 10y ago
That's only true if you define "middle-class" as white collar. Welders make decent money, 35-60k on average for bog standard fabrication work. Easy to double those figures working for the oil and gas industries. Welders that can cert to Nuclear industry standards can easily triple those figure, and underwater welders can make over $300k in a year.
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  > That's only true if you define "middle-class" as white collar. Isn't that how everyone defines it? University educated, cultured, white collar workers? To me, middle-class means a doctor, lawyer, teacher, regulated professionals, things like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22gCw4iDdu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22gCw4iDdu4
  - knieveltech 10y ago
    No, or it's growing less common outside of academic circles. It is frequently used (especially in popular media) to denote little beyond personal income. See dragonwriter's comment for a thumbnail critique of the practice.
  - wavefunction 10y ago
    Folks who worked in manufacturing plants like automobile factories were considered part of the middle class, before neoliberal globalism reduced their earning potential and employment opportunities.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      For a while, people who worked in manufacturing jobs, saved and invested surplus income over a career, etc., could often reach the classic capitalist-economy definition of middle class (neither predominantly dependent on wage labor nor having enough capital to meet support needs plus accumulate more capital purely by renting others labor to apply to the capital) by late in their career. That is no longer as attainable as it once was. (Neoliberal globalism is part of the problem, but in the US specifically domestic tax reform to shift the burden from upper income earners to lower-to-middle-income workers over time, particularly the enormous shift under Reagan, is more specifically the problem, and not really connected to neoliberal globalization except that there is some overlap in political support.)