5 ms·

The Isdalen mystery

138 points by radagast 10y ago

iffycan 10y ago
scree: a mass of small loose stones that form or cover a slope on a mountain
- creeble 10y ago
  Thanks!
- nickthemagicman 10y ago
  I seriously thought it was their way of sayin ski...Gonna go hit the scree slops!
olalonde 10y ago
There are some interesting theories and discussions about the case on the /r/UnresolvedMysteries subreddit[0]. My favorite one is that she might have been part of a check scams league[1]. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/search?q=isdal&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/search?q=isdal&... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3anykc/the_woman_from_nowhere/csjsfy1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3anykc...
- robert_h 10y ago
  Interesting. Also search for Isdalen https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/search?q=isdalen&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/search?q=isdale...
lb1lf 10y ago
I am too young to remember this first-hand, but my parents were studying at the University of Bergen at the time; they vividly remember the case - unidentified bodies being exceedingly rare in Norway, this was the #1 conversational item for weeks, if not months. Lots and lots of theories as to her origins and the purpose of her tour of Norway not to mention the question of who killed her, and why. General consensus at the time was (at least in my parents' circles) was that it was too elaborate to have been a suicide - many thought she'd been in the employ of some Warsaw pact intelligence service, possibly being killed by associates after some falling out or the other. After all, if our counter-intelligence had gotten hold of her, they'd simply lock her up or deport her - or, if you are of a more sinister disposition, disappear her. Anyway - all just conjecture and guesswork; the idea was just to write a short comment to suggest that this case is very special by Norwegian standards - then I got a bit carried away...
mwidell 10y ago
Reminds me of the Tamam Shud Case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamam_Shud_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamam_Shud_case
- tyingq 10y ago
  Hmm. Interesting. Both bodies had brands / tags removed from the clothing. Both had "secret codes" on them. Both had left suitcases in a local transit station, again, with labels / brands removed.
- anotheryou 10y ago
  Thanks! I thought my mind played tricks on me, wondering if I hadn't read this about a man before.
Shivetya 10y ago
Sadly it takes sensational stories like this get notice but in the US alone more than a half million get reported each year with nearly eight thousand missing at any one time At least here they have a body. There are tens of thousands of other bodies that cannot be identified in the US alone. So going forward it will probably take genetic sampling at birth so that everyone can be identified or every set of remains can be. How much of society trusts government to do only that?
- IvarTheHomeless 10y ago
  The FBI estimates about 3,000 people go missing, permanently, in the US every year. People get reported missing all of the time, but they are found quickly.
- cesis 10y ago
  Genetic sampling of everyone isn't necessarry. It would be enough to match a relative.
- lb1lf 10y ago
  While universal genetic sampling probably isn't on the books in the near future, there's an obvious risk of mission creep with samples already collected for another purpose. Here in Norway we've got an ongoing case in which the police (in Bergen, the same precinct which got the Isdalen case in the parent article in their laps) collected DNA samples from any male who volunteered to provide one to be checked out of a rape case. (They used cell phone position data to determine who had been in the immediate area around the time of the rape). Anyone who provided a sample were assured that the sample would be destroyed once they were checked out - as would any data derived from it. Guess what. The samples still exist, the unexpected twist being that the police wants to destroy them to keep up the populace's trust. The national archives are the ones trying to preserve the samples on the grounds that they are, by law, material which fall under the authority of the national archives. If the samples are in the end preserved, guess what: a) Noone will ever volunteer DNA ever again, and: b) Someone will at some point cross-reference the samples against other unsolved crimes, just in case.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
anotheryou 10y ago
Spoiler: "until now" means just some new media thing about it, no news
- emilga 10y ago
  On the contrary! Here are some of the recent developments in the case: - A brand new police-sketch of her face (after interviewing witnesses) aiming for photo realism. (As opposed to the sketch from the 70's which is more stylistic in nature.) - Handwriting analysis of her diary, itineraries, etc. to narrow down where she could've been educated. - A complete DNA profile from samples of her internal organs. (Samples were previously thought missing, but have recently been rediscovered.) - Her teeth (also previously thought missing) have been sent for isotope analysis to narrow down her geographic area of origin. Her dental work is also being studied to match repair methods with country.
  - cure 10y ago
    you mean teeth?
    - emilga 10y ago
      Yes! :)
  - sounds 10y ago
    This is what the series of articles will say. The second article (apparently in Norwegian only, I plowed through the Google-translate version) just talks about the reactions of people to the new police-sketch of her face.
nl 10y ago
There appears to be a follow-up story, but it is in Norwegian only: https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/xl/er-dette-isdalskvinna_-1.13137112 https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/xl/er-dette-isdalskvinna_-1.13...
- mgv11 10y ago
  It is just interviews of the people who worked at the hotel at the time the lady was there. They also got multiple drawings of the lady done, which they showed to these people who remember her. The drawings are not 100% according to the witnesses, but good enough they say. Must have made quite an impact the lady and the event since they remember all that still.
privong 10y ago
The wikipedia page has some additional information not covered in this story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isdal_Woman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isdal_Woman

The Isdalen mystery

138 points by radagast 10y ago

iffycan 10y ago

scree: a mass of small loose stones that form or cover a slope on a mountain

creeble 10y ago
Thanks!
nickthemagicman 10y ago
I seriously thought it was their way of sayin ski...Gonna go hit the scree slops!

olalonde 10y ago

There are some interesting theories and discussions about the case on the /r/UnresolvedMysteries subreddit[0]. My favorite one is that she might have been part of a check scams league[1]. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/search?q=isdal&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/search?q=isdal&... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3anykc/the_woman_from_nowhere/csjsfy1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3anykc...

robert_h 10y ago
Interesting. Also search for Isdalen https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/search?q=isdalen&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/search?q=isdale...

lb1lf 10y ago

I am too young to remember this first-hand, but my parents were studying at the University of Bergen at the time; they vividly remember the case - unidentified bodies being exceedingly rare in Norway, this was the #1 conversational item for weeks, if not months. Lots and lots of theories as to her origins and the purpose of her tour of Norway not to mention the question of who killed her, and why. General consensus at the time was (at least in my parents' circles) was that it was too elaborate to have been a suicide - many thought she'd been in the employ of some Warsaw pact intelligence service, possibly being killed by associates after some falling out or the other. After all, if our counter-intelligence had gotten hold of her, they'd simply lock her up or deport her - or, if you are of a more sinister disposition, disappear her. Anyway - all just conjecture and guesswork; the idea was just to write a short comment to suggest that this case is very special by Norwegian standards - then I got a bit carried away...

mwidell 10y ago

Reminds me of the Tamam Shud Case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamam_Shud_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamam_Shud_case

tyingq 10y ago
Hmm. Interesting. Both bodies had brands / tags removed from the clothing. Both had "secret codes" on them. Both had left suitcases in a local transit station, again, with labels / brands removed.
anotheryou 10y ago
Thanks! I thought my mind played tricks on me, wondering if I hadn't read this about a man before.

Shivetya 10y ago

Sadly it takes sensational stories like this get notice but in the US alone more than a half million get reported each year with nearly eight thousand missing at any one time At least here they have a body. There are tens of thousands of other bodies that cannot be identified in the US alone. So going forward it will probably take genetic sampling at birth so that everyone can be identified or every set of remains can be. How much of society trusts government to do only that?

IvarTheHomeless 10y ago
The FBI estimates about 3,000 people go missing, permanently, in the US every year. People get reported missing all of the time, but they are found quickly.
cesis 10y ago
Genetic sampling of everyone isn't necessarry. It would be enough to match a relative.
lb1lf 10y ago
While universal genetic sampling probably isn't on the books in the near future, there's an obvious risk of mission creep with samples already collected for another purpose. Here in Norway we've got an ongoing case in which the police (in Bergen, the same precinct which got the Isdalen case in the parent article in their laps) collected DNA samples from any male who volunteered to provide one to be checked out of a rape case. (They used cell phone position data to determine who had been in the immediate area around the time of the rape). Anyone who provided a sample were assured that the sample would be destroyed once they were checked out - as would any data derived from it. Guess what. The samples still exist, the unexpected twist being that the police wants to destroy them to keep up the populace's trust. The national archives are the ones trying to preserve the samples on the grounds that they are, by law, material which fall under the authority of the national archives. If the samples are in the end preserved, guess what: a) Noone will ever volunteer DNA ever again, and: b) Someone will at some point cross-reference the samples against other unsolved crimes, just in case.
pavel_lishin 10y ago

anotheryou 10y ago

Spoiler: "until now" means just some new media thing about it, no news

emilga 10y ago
On the contrary! Here are some of the recent developments in the case: - A brand new police-sketch of her face (after interviewing witnesses) aiming for photo realism. (As opposed to the sketch from the 70's which is more stylistic in nature.) - Handwriting analysis of her diary, itineraries, etc. to narrow down where she could've been educated. - A complete DNA profile from samples of her internal organs. (Samples were previously thought missing, but have recently been rediscovered.) - Her teeth (also previously thought missing) have been sent for isotope analysis to narrow down her geographic area of origin. Her dental work is also being studied to match repair methods with country.
- cure 10y ago
  you mean teeth?
  - emilga 10y ago
    Yes! :)
- sounds 10y ago
  This is what the series of articles will say. The second article (apparently in Norwegian only, I plowed through the Google-translate version) just talks about the reactions of people to the new police-sketch of her face.

nl 10y ago

There appears to be a follow-up story, but it is in Norwegian only: https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/xl/er-dette-isdalskvinna_-1.13137112 https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/xl/er-dette-isdalskvinna_-1.13...

mgv11 10y ago
It is just interviews of the people who worked at the hotel at the time the lady was there. They also got multiple drawings of the lady done, which they showed to these people who remember her. The drawings are not 100% according to the witnesses, but good enough they say. Must have made quite an impact the lady and the event since they remember all that still.

privong 10y ago

The wikipedia page has some additional information not covered in this story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isdal_Woman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isdal_Woman