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I don't get this either or thing. I got a BSc in Computing Science when I was a kid. I'm 30 now and preparing for the GMAT. I also keep abreast of the latest

by pkaler 16y ago

I don't get this either or thing. I got a BSc in Computing Science when I was a kid. I'm 30 now and preparing for the GMAT. I also keep abreast of the latest on the lean startup and on the fat startup. Why not learn it all?

ojbyrne 16y ago
In my opinion you're the ideal MBA candidate - undergrad in either engineering or a science, some work experience, then the MBA. The problem is that so many MBAs have undergrads in Business and go straight to the masters without any intervening work experience. So they don't have experience and the courses have a lot of overlap. They give the MBA a bad name, but they're the cash cow of business schools.
- rick_2047 16y ago
  Where I live (India) most of the MBAs are Engineering or Science Graduates. This year only 9 people from business and 1 from arts got into IIM-A. Its a common choice among Engineers to take up MBA after there Graduation (BE/BS/B Tech). It kind of annoys me though. Its fine if you are doing an specialization in something like Project Management, Computer Management, E-Commerce or something like that. But it just bugs me if you take up finance or banking. WTF? If you wanted to do finance or banking why the hell did you waste the one seat of Eng/Sci student. In a country where there is already a shortage of Quality Engineering studies, these people take there education from IIT and then join IIMs taking up banking or finance. This is a total waste of the Rs 900,000/- the government is spending on each IIT student. I just hate to meet someone working in a bank and them mentioning "I did an B Tech in Electrical from IIT then went to IIM". Either I am missing the node joining finance and banking with engineering or this is really just the product of the herd mentality students here have. Its a trend now to go for MBA and they would take any branch if they get into an IIM, "Why bother, its IIM!!!".
  - nileshtrivedi 16y ago
    Good point. Although, I have to add that the trend has already reversed. Most IITians now consider IIMs beneath them. "Only mediocre crowd goes to IIMs" says a recent fresh graduate from IIT Kharagpur. The reason is that IIT grads are now able to get the same jobs and roles as the IIM grads - McKinsey / BCG / Goldman Sachs / and other investment banks have been regulars at IIT campuses for quite a few years now. Their reasoning goes that why not catch this talent early instead of getting the same bunch of people from IIMs a few years later. It's indeed sad that there is not enough money in the core engineering disciplines yet.
    - rick_2047 16y ago
      The problem is not money in this case. There was never the equal amount of money in Engineering that they have in business. The problem here is that there is not passion amongst the engineering graduates in general towards there discipline. Most join engineering because there peers are joining or there parent told them to. It is indeed sad that students think in pure monetary terms rather than there passion. I have seen many engineering undergrads who wanted to go into fine arts and joined up just so because there "uncle" told them to.
  - roel_v 16y ago
    What's an IIM and IIT? How much is 900k Rs?
    - rick_2047 16y ago
      IIM : Indian Institute of Management. These are the most premium B-schools of India supported by Indian government. IIT : Indian Institute of Technology. These These are the most premium tech schools of India supported by Indian government. 900 000 Indian rupees = 19 758.6 U.S. dollars
      - glen 16y ago
        IIT - most selective school on the planet. Much more competitive than Harvard.
        endtime 16y ago
        Your comment inspired me to do some research, and the first page I found was this one: http://www.kamalsinha.com/iit/acceptance-rate.html http://www.kamalsinha.com/iit/acceptance-rate.html Given your comparison to Harvard, I thought you might be interested in this paragraph: >While it seems true that admission rate at IITs is less than even the most selective US school like the CalTech, it does not mean IIT recruits students of higher caliber. In a country like the USA, educational resources were well developed and the enrollment capacity for engineering majors is kept about the same as the number of seniors intending to enter those programs, if not more. It means less desparation. Moreover, there are lot of top-notch schools schools of about equal caliber which decreases their selectivity figures. My guess is that the top 50 engineering schools in the USA exceed IITs in almost all respect and another 100 or so other schools are not far behind.
        mvp 16y ago
        glen is probably referring to the ratio of the number of successful applicants to the total number of applicants - which is about 1% ( about a decade and half ago, maybe even less now). I don't know whether it makes any sense to compare the calibre of students coming from colleges in different countries with vastly different cultures in the absence of results from common tests. However, these people are definitely among the best from a populous country where education has a status closer to religion and is also a ticket to earn legal income disproportionate to efforts expended.
- profgubler 16y ago
  I actually think very few go from undergrad to their mba without work experience. Look at the average years experience for top grad schools. It is normally 3+ years on average. I am about to go to Notre Dame for an MBA and I have just under 3. It is all great to pick on people who have a business undergrad and mba, but sometimes in life people don't know what they want to do at the undergrad level. I did not start my business undergrad thinking I would get an MBA, but it becomes the logical career move later on. I am way excited for where I am going now with it, but double business isn't inherently a bad thing in some industries. For me I want to get more into tech, so I am teaching myself rails. People always talk about learning business on their own, why can't someone also learn programming on their own?
  - gaius 16y ago
    It's often business degree -> analyst at a bank or consultancy -> MBA -> associate at bank or consultancy -> industry job when it becomes apparent that partnership isn't on the horizon. The problem with MBAs of this type is that they believe management is a universal function that can be applied directly to any industry. The real world is more subtle than that.
    - nileshtrivedi 16y ago
      As long as the recruiters keep believing that "management is a universal function that can be applied directly to any industry", students can hardly be blamed for it.
      - ojbyrne 16y ago
        Actually I think that's true, but it takes experience to gain sufficient humility to know that you have to respect the differences in domains. Obviously (for example) manufacturing is different from software, but motivating people, managing costs, solving customer problems - those are universal.

by pkaler 16y ago

ojbyrne 16y ago

In my opinion you're the ideal MBA candidate - undergrad in either engineering or a science, some work experience, then the MBA. The problem is that so many MBAs have undergrads in Business and go straight to the masters without any intervening work experience. So they don't have experience and the courses have a lot of overlap. They give the MBA a bad name, but they're the cash cow of business schools.

rick_2047 16y ago
Where I live (India) most of the MBAs are Engineering or Science Graduates. This year only 9 people from business and 1 from arts got into IIM-A. Its a common choice among Engineers to take up MBA after there Graduation (BE/BS/B Tech). It kind of annoys me though. Its fine if you are doing an specialization in something like Project Management, Computer Management, E-Commerce or something like that. But it just bugs me if you take up finance or banking. WTF? If you wanted to do finance or banking why the hell did you waste the one seat of Eng/Sci student. In a country where there is already a shortage of Quality Engineering studies, these people take there education from IIT and then join IIMs taking up banking or finance. This is a total waste of the Rs 900,000/- the government is spending on each IIT student. I just hate to meet someone working in a bank and them mentioning "I did an B Tech in Electrical from IIT then went to IIM". Either I am missing the node joining finance and banking with engineering or this is really just the product of the herd mentality students here have. Its a trend now to go for MBA and they would take any branch if they get into an IIM, "Why bother, its IIM!!!".
- nileshtrivedi 16y ago
  Good point. Although, I have to add that the trend has already reversed. Most IITians now consider IIMs beneath them. "Only mediocre crowd goes to IIMs" says a recent fresh graduate from IIT Kharagpur. The reason is that IIT grads are now able to get the same jobs and roles as the IIM grads - McKinsey / BCG / Goldman Sachs / and other investment banks have been regulars at IIT campuses for quite a few years now. Their reasoning goes that why not catch this talent early instead of getting the same bunch of people from IIMs a few years later. It's indeed sad that there is not enough money in the core engineering disciplines yet.
  - rick_2047 16y ago
    The problem is not money in this case. There was never the equal amount of money in Engineering that they have in business. The problem here is that there is not passion amongst the engineering graduates in general towards there discipline. Most join engineering because there peers are joining or there parent told them to. It is indeed sad that students think in pure monetary terms rather than there passion. I have seen many engineering undergrads who wanted to go into fine arts and joined up just so because there "uncle" told them to.
- roel_v 16y ago
  What's an IIM and IIT? How much is 900k Rs?
  - rick_2047 16y ago
    IIM : Indian Institute of Management. These are the most premium B-schools of India supported by Indian government. IIT : Indian Institute of Technology. These These are the most premium tech schools of India supported by Indian government. 900 000 Indian rupees = 19 758.6 U.S. dollars
    - glen 16y ago
      IIT - most selective school on the planet. Much more competitive than Harvard.
      - endtime 16y ago
        Your comment inspired me to do some research, and the first page I found was this one: http://www.kamalsinha.com/iit/acceptance-rate.html http://www.kamalsinha.com/iit/acceptance-rate.html Given your comparison to Harvard, I thought you might be interested in this paragraph: >While it seems true that admission rate at IITs is less than even the most selective US school like the CalTech, it does not mean IIT recruits students of higher caliber. In a country like the USA, educational resources were well developed and the enrollment capacity for engineering majors is kept about the same as the number of seniors intending to enter those programs, if not more. It means less desparation. Moreover, there are lot of top-notch schools schools of about equal caliber which decreases their selectivity figures. My guess is that the top 50 engineering schools in the USA exceed IITs in almost all respect and another 100 or so other schools are not far behind.
        mvp 16y ago
        glen is probably referring to the ratio of the number of successful applicants to the total number of applicants - which is about 1% ( about a decade and half ago, maybe even less now). I don't know whether it makes any sense to compare the calibre of students coming from colleges in different countries with vastly different cultures in the absence of results from common tests. However, these people are definitely among the best from a populous country where education has a status closer to religion and is also a ticket to earn legal income disproportionate to efforts expended.
profgubler 16y ago
I actually think very few go from undergrad to their mba without work experience. Look at the average years experience for top grad schools. It is normally 3+ years on average. I am about to go to Notre Dame for an MBA and I have just under 3. It is all great to pick on people who have a business undergrad and mba, but sometimes in life people don't know what they want to do at the undergrad level. I did not start my business undergrad thinking I would get an MBA, but it becomes the logical career move later on. I am way excited for where I am going now with it, but double business isn't inherently a bad thing in some industries. For me I want to get more into tech, so I am teaching myself rails. People always talk about learning business on their own, why can't someone also learn programming on their own?
- gaius 16y ago
  It's often business degree -> analyst at a bank or consultancy -> MBA -> associate at bank or consultancy -> industry job when it becomes apparent that partnership isn't on the horizon. The problem with MBAs of this type is that they believe management is a universal function that can be applied directly to any industry. The real world is more subtle than that.
  - nileshtrivedi 16y ago
    As long as the recruiters keep believing that "management is a universal function that can be applied directly to any industry", students can hardly be blamed for it.
    - ojbyrne 16y ago
      Actually I think that's true, but it takes experience to gain sufficient humility to know that you have to respect the differences in domains. Obviously (for example) manufacturing is different from software, but motivating people, managing costs, solving customer problems - those are universal.