4 ms·

From NJ, US - the reason Bernie's plans were seen as nuts by the mainstream media is because the US has an extremely conservative bent compared to many European

by Fej 10y ago

From NJ, US - the reason Bernie's plans were seen as nuts by the mainstream media is because the US has an extremely conservative bent compared to many European countries. Our left-wing, I imagine, would be right-wing in Europe, and our right-wing would be decried as extreme-right fascists. Anything that helps the average American is Communism, and we can't have that, can we?

disordinary 10y ago
Yeah, and even the extreme right in other countries would likely be to the left in the US, but only on some policies.
kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
Much of the rancor from the right about government programs is actually veiled/transmuted bigotry against any form of assistance going to non-whites.
fjrieiekd 10y ago
You'd be surprised. I'm not sure if you've ever spent significant time in Europe, but it's not a fairy-tale land. You would also be surprised at how insular and "right-wing" they can be. As a non-American, what I see is that many Americans, especially those commenting here, suffer from a particularly virulent form of "the grass is greener over there" syndrome. Europe is a beautiful place, but behind the beauty lies ugliness of a different kind. The US has many problems, but there's also a reason why Silicon Valley and people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are in the States. If you value knowing your place in the social hierarchy and having less and paying more for it, then by all means, adopt the European model. However, as jblow said above, there are so many bright spots in the US, too, so maybe it's better to just work on the rough spots instead of always looking over the fence.
- querulous 10y ago
  jeff bezos was born in new mexico?
  - fjrieiekd 10y ago
    Elon musk was born in South Africa, and spent time in Canada before moving to the US. My point was more about it being possible for these people to achieve their heights in the US, while their place of birth is less important. Jeff was lucky in that he didn't have to immigrate. :)
tptacek 10y ago
I'm not particularly lit up by the creeping threat of American Communism and the word "socialist" doesn't scare me; I'm a centrist-liberal Democrat small firm owner. And I didn't vote for Bernie. In fact, I actively voted against him. Why? Because I thought his policies were a combination of marginally impactful, dumb, and/or unrealistic. Eliminating free trade agreements isn't going to bring secure jobs back to the Rust Belt. Massive expenditures to get everyone to college is a terrible plan --- and one the people hit hardest by the decline of manufacturing do not want. Single-payer health care is unrealistic and nationalizes something close to 20% of our entire economy. The problem with these policies isn't "socialism". It's that they won't work. Switzerland isn't a socialist country (look how the Swiss health care system works). The issue here isn't a crazy problem Americans have with "Socialism" (although using that term to describe a policy isn't a great way to win support for it).

by Fej 10y ago

disordinary 10y ago

Yeah, and even the extreme right in other countries would likely be to the left in the US, but only on some policies.

kevin_thibedeau 10y ago

Much of the rancor from the right about government programs is actually veiled/transmuted bigotry against any form of assistance going to non-whites.

fjrieiekd 10y ago

You'd be surprised. I'm not sure if you've ever spent significant time in Europe, but it's not a fairy-tale land. You would also be surprised at how insular and "right-wing" they can be. As a non-American, what I see is that many Americans, especially those commenting here, suffer from a particularly virulent form of "the grass is greener over there" syndrome. Europe is a beautiful place, but behind the beauty lies ugliness of a different kind. The US has many problems, but there's also a reason why Silicon Valley and people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are in the States. If you value knowing your place in the social hierarchy and having less and paying more for it, then by all means, adopt the European model. However, as jblow said above, there are so many bright spots in the US, too, so maybe it's better to just work on the rough spots instead of always looking over the fence.

querulous 10y ago
jeff bezos was born in new mexico?
- fjrieiekd 10y ago
  Elon musk was born in South Africa, and spent time in Canada before moving to the US. My point was more about it being possible for these people to achieve their heights in the US, while their place of birth is less important. Jeff was lucky in that he didn't have to immigrate. :)

tptacek 10y ago

I'm not particularly lit up by the creeping threat of American Communism and the word "socialist" doesn't scare me; I'm a centrist-liberal Democrat small firm owner. And I didn't vote for Bernie. In fact, I actively voted against him. Why? Because I thought his policies were a combination of marginally impactful, dumb, and/or unrealistic. Eliminating free trade agreements isn't going to bring secure jobs back to the Rust Belt. Massive expenditures to get everyone to college is a terrible plan --- and one the people hit hardest by the decline of manufacturing do not want. Single-payer health care is unrealistic and nationalizes something close to 20% of our entire economy. The problem with these policies isn't "socialism". It's that they won't work. Switzerland isn't a socialist country (look how the Swiss health care system works). The issue here isn't a crazy problem Americans have with "Socialism" (although using that term to describe a policy isn't a great way to win support for it).