5 ms·

Isn't this rather rich coming from a guy who has probably consumed 100 times more animal protein in his ~70 years on earth than the average joe to whom he is no

Isn't this rather rich coming from a guy who has probably consumed 100 times more animal protein in his ~70 years on earth than the average joe to whom he is now rationing.

taeric 10y ago
Meh. Assume it works and that only a hundred people listen to him... More, people can learn and advance their thinking. Robbing newcomers of help and assistance is bad. Suggesting better practices is not. Combining this with his other writing lately, I am willing to respect what his intentions seem to be.
sp332 10y ago
Not especially. Water is more constrained now that it used to be, and there are more people to feed. Anyway it means more coming from him than from some skinny hippie-type, so people are more likely to take it seriously.
jschwartzi 10y ago
Actually, he's right. You do not need to eat animals to get good protein. It's easier to supplement with whey or soy protein. I wouldn't be surprised if his bodybuilding diet involved supplementation since it's much easier to meet macronutrient goals with protein shakes than by eating meat, because you don't have to worry about the fat that comes from the meat.
- tcj_phx 10y ago
  > It's easier to supplement with whey or soy protein. Soy is a rather poor source of protein (phyto-estrogens, etc). Whey is a waste product of the cheese industry. (Edit: All things considered, milk is a pretty good source of protein.) The milk cow is the most efficient means of converting the grass on a rocky hillside into human-edible protein (ref: some old book I have somewhere. They're all in boxes). The fat in grass-fed milk is more orange than industrial milk because there is more vitamins A & E (and beta carotene) in the milk than is in cottonseed meal (a waste product of the cotton industry that is commonly fed to dairy cows in a feedlot).
  - plorg 10y ago
    Here in Iowa we grow corn to feed our cows (different, I assume HN-ers could guess, from human-edible sweetcorn). I don't know about the vitamin load. I assume it's probably less-good than that of the random plants on marginal land. On the other hand, we don't have much for rocky hills or crags around here. In this case, we'd probably be better off using our land to grow a wide variety of nutritious foods besides the corn and soybeans that have become the monoculture here.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    >"Soy is a rather poor source of protein (phyto-estrogens, etc)" Regarding phyto-estrogens, from what I've seen there are positives as well as negatives. What in particular puts you off them? To anyone reading this who hasn't heard about phyto-estrogens, and thinks of estrogens as a female-only hormone, it should be noted that males have estrogen receptors too, and phyto-estrogens are part of vegetables widely accepted as being healthy, such as carrots, apples, lentils, oats, barley, etc...
    - mistercow 10y ago
      Most importantly, isoflavones does not have any effect on male sex hormones. That means no effect on your workout, no effect on your drive, and no effect on your reproductive health. Or at least, no plausible reason for an effect on those things.
    - mhurron 10y ago
      There was a myth that was well circulated 10-15? years ago (as soy products were becoming more available in the US) that said soy estrogen would turn men and boys into effeminate pansies and we'd all grow girl boobs.
    - tcj_phx 10y ago
      Many environmental toxins are estrogenic. This means that they cause tissues to swell and divide sort-of like human estrogens. Some xenoestrogens are more toxic than others. Plant xeno-estrogens are more innocuous than industrial xenoestrogens.
  - 10y ago
- bluedino 10y ago
  In the old days protein shakes hadn't really come into the picture yet. The guys would eat eggs and hamburger patties, drink a lot of milk, your typical low-carb style diet. And they'd carb up on pasta one night a week. Ric Draisin worked out with Arnold in those times and has interesting videos on YouTube discussing their workouts and diets etc
adamnemecek 10y ago
a.) no way it's 100x, maybe 2x (tops) compared with a "meat lover" b.) times have changed c.) you can't really blame him for following "social norms" (I can't imagine that being vegetarian/vegan was easy in Austria when he was growing up)
- Pxtl 10y ago
  He actually couldn't afford enough meat when he was starting out, so he relied on milk. Which is still animal matter, but is more efficient than meat. So the world's largest biceps were mostly dairy. Also steroids. Lots of steroids.
mping 10y ago
Isn't this definition of ad hominem? He he he even if you're right he still has a point.
serf 10y ago
How about his campaign to make the Humvee a civilian vehicle?[0] Surely that must have helped the environment. [0]: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/26/AR2010022603248.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02... edit to add: in the interest of fairness, he gave up his hummers when the environment became a hotter issue politically.
forgetsusername 10y ago
If we can't accept people changing their views, how can we ever progress or advance?
aaronblohowiak 10y ago
An ad hominem attack from a new account. Astroturfing

Isn't this rather rich coming from a guy who has probably consumed 100 times more animal protein in his ~70 years on earth than the average joe to whom he is now rationing.

taeric 10y ago

Meh. Assume it works and that only a hundred people listen to him... More, people can learn and advance their thinking. Robbing newcomers of help and assistance is bad. Suggesting better practices is not. Combining this with his other writing lately, I am willing to respect what his intentions seem to be.

sp332 10y ago

Not especially. Water is more constrained now that it used to be, and there are more people to feed. Anyway it means more coming from him than from some skinny hippie-type, so people are more likely to take it seriously.

jschwartzi 10y ago

Actually, he's right. You do not need to eat animals to get good protein. It's easier to supplement with whey or soy protein. I wouldn't be surprised if his bodybuilding diet involved supplementation since it's much easier to meet macronutrient goals with protein shakes than by eating meat, because you don't have to worry about the fat that comes from the meat.

tcj_phx 10y ago
> It's easier to supplement with whey or soy protein. Soy is a rather poor source of protein (phyto-estrogens, etc). Whey is a waste product of the cheese industry. (Edit: All things considered, milk is a pretty good source of protein.) The milk cow is the most efficient means of converting the grass on a rocky hillside into human-edible protein (ref: some old book I have somewhere. They're all in boxes). The fat in grass-fed milk is more orange than industrial milk because there is more vitamins A & E (and beta carotene) in the milk than is in cottonseed meal (a waste product of the cotton industry that is commonly fed to dairy cows in a feedlot).
- plorg 10y ago
  Here in Iowa we grow corn to feed our cows (different, I assume HN-ers could guess, from human-edible sweetcorn). I don't know about the vitamin load. I assume it's probably less-good than that of the random plants on marginal land. On the other hand, we don't have much for rocky hills or crags around here. In this case, we'd probably be better off using our land to grow a wide variety of nutritious foods besides the corn and soybeans that have become the monoculture here.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  >"Soy is a rather poor source of protein (phyto-estrogens, etc)" Regarding phyto-estrogens, from what I've seen there are positives as well as negatives. What in particular puts you off them? To anyone reading this who hasn't heard about phyto-estrogens, and thinks of estrogens as a female-only hormone, it should be noted that males have estrogen receptors too, and phyto-estrogens are part of vegetables widely accepted as being healthy, such as carrots, apples, lentils, oats, barley, etc...
  - mistercow 10y ago
    Most importantly, isoflavones does not have any effect on male sex hormones. That means no effect on your workout, no effect on your drive, and no effect on your reproductive health. Or at least, no plausible reason for an effect on those things.
  - mhurron 10y ago
    There was a myth that was well circulated 10-15? years ago (as soy products were becoming more available in the US) that said soy estrogen would turn men and boys into effeminate pansies and we'd all grow girl boobs.
  - tcj_phx 10y ago
    Many environmental toxins are estrogenic. This means that they cause tissues to swell and divide sort-of like human estrogens. Some xenoestrogens are more toxic than others. Plant xeno-estrogens are more innocuous than industrial xenoestrogens.
- 10y ago
bluedino 10y ago
In the old days protein shakes hadn't really come into the picture yet. The guys would eat eggs and hamburger patties, drink a lot of milk, your typical low-carb style diet. And they'd carb up on pasta one night a week. Ric Draisin worked out with Arnold in those times and has interesting videos on YouTube discussing their workouts and diets etc

adamnemecek 10y ago

a.) no way it's 100x, maybe 2x (tops) compared with a "meat lover" b.) times have changed c.) you can't really blame him for following "social norms" (I can't imagine that being vegetarian/vegan was easy in Austria when he was growing up)

Pxtl 10y ago
He actually couldn't afford enough meat when he was starting out, so he relied on milk. Which is still animal matter, but is more efficient than meat. So the world's largest biceps were mostly dairy. Also steroids. Lots of steroids.

mping 10y ago

Isn't this definition of ad hominem? He he he even if you're right he still has a point.

serf 10y ago

How about his campaign to make the Humvee a civilian vehicle?[0] Surely that must have helped the environment. [0]: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/26/AR2010022603248.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02... edit to add: in the interest of fairness, he gave up his hummers when the environment became a hotter issue politically.

forgetsusername 10y ago

If we can't accept people changing their views, how can we ever progress or advance?

aaronblohowiak 10y ago

An ad hominem attack from a new account. Astroturfing