5 ms·

This is appalling. Are not our bodies our own? The remains of our bodies should belong to whomever we will it to.

by Randgalt 10y ago

Freak_NL 10y ago
You are welcome to register yourself as non-donor.
- Randgalt 10y ago
  You are free to file a form so as not to have your body stolen at death. Sounds great.
  - Freak_NL 10y ago
    Living in any modern society means taking on some duties and obligations for the benefit of the society. This will bother you for five minutes in France before clicking 'submit' and getting on with your (hopefully long lasting) life. You would wish dealing with taxes was as easy that. Besides, what are you going to do with your body? It'll be gone sooner or later.
    - Randgalt 10y ago
      Besides, what are you going to do with your <fill in the blank>? It'll be gone sooner or later
      - gattilorenz 10y ago
        The difference being, there's not much use for your heart once you're dead. Not only that, but it's useless even for your family, since they can't simply sell it or profit in any way as they would with most things (unless you're also advocating for the family right to sell your organs).
  - orf 10y ago
    > Stolen Sorry, you mean some critical organs used to save others lives after you die? Or where you planning to use that lovely healthy heart after you die, when a patient in the next room is dying because they cant find a suitable transplant.
    - Randgalt 10y ago
      So, other's needs trump my desires?
      - ceejayoz 10y ago
        Why not? You can't punch me. You can't take my stuff. You can't build a roof over my property.
      - adrianN 10y ago
        They do so all the time. That's what it means to live in a society.
      - orf 10y ago
        In some cases, yes. This is a key part of a society. Your desires are not absolute and should not be obeyed to a T just because they are yours. In any case your desire to not donate your organs to help others can and will be respected. Why is it only Americans who have these strange 'screw everyone else' tendencies and opinions which seem to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny?
  - Nexxxeh 10y ago
    1)Ownership is a bit of a moot point at that point, because you are already dead. 2)Your wishes will still be respected assuming you took the relevant steps before you died. The difference now is that the default assumption is that you aren't selfish enough to deny life and quality of life to those who are left behind. It's not likely you need your heart, lungs, liver, corneas etc. You are, at this stage, already dead. 3)If one is sufficiently selfish to doom those in need of a transplant, there's a register for that. 4)Your body probably isn't going to just stay wherever you died anyway. The responsibility for dealing with it is transferred to others regardless, what with you being dead and all.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
jhg7877 10y ago
I carry an organ donation card and have taken part in organ donation signup drives. I find this appalling as well. It's equivalent to the government giving itself ownership of your body. How can't it change the relationship between patients and doctors? It's insane. People have also quickly forgotten the organ theft scandals of the last 40 years where hospitals stole organs from bodies for research and profit.
- orf 10y ago
  > People have also quickly forgotten the organ theft scandals of the last 40 years where hospitals stole organs from bodies for research and profit. Which they wouldn't have done if there was a ready supply of donated organs, instead of a critical shortage.
  - jhg7877 10y ago
    I suggest you do some research about the organ retention scandals in the UK and Ireland and how it affected grieving families. It's horrifying and would make any rational person seriosuly question opt-out organ donation given the unethical behaviour of hospitals for decades. "According to Colgan, babies' bodies were filled with sand, so they would be the correct weight when loved ones held them for the last time. Pituitary glands of thousands of children (and some adults) were sold to pharmaceutical companies unbeknownst to their families."[1] [1] http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/the-scandal-of-organ-retention-26558440.html http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/the-scandal-of... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Hey_organs_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Hey_organs_scandal
    - orf 10y ago
      I agree, that does sound pretty bad. But I fail to see how it relates in any way to organ donation. > The Alder Hey organs scandal involved the unauthorised removal, retention, and disposal of human tissue The key word is unauthorised.
ceejayoz 10y ago
> Are not our bodies our own? In most developed-world societies, definitely not. There are extensive restrictions on suicide, volunteering for cannibalism, disposal of bodies, etc.
- Randgalt 10y ago
  So then I assume you support prohibitions on drug use, the draft, etc.
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    Sure! Driving while stoned/drunk should be illegal so someone else's drug use doesn't kill me, and the draft has a place for true national emergencies like another world war or something like Yellowstone cooking off. I like being part of a society that doesn't look like a MMA free-for-all.

This is appalling. Are not our bodies our own? The remains of our bodies should belong to whomever we will it to.

Freak_NL 10y ago

You are welcome to register yourself as non-donor.

Randgalt 10y ago
You are free to file a form so as not to have your body stolen at death. Sounds great.
- Freak_NL 10y ago
  Living in any modern society means taking on some duties and obligations for the benefit of the society. This will bother you for five minutes in France before clicking 'submit' and getting on with your (hopefully long lasting) life. You would wish dealing with taxes was as easy that. Besides, what are you going to do with your body? It'll be gone sooner or later.
  - Randgalt 10y ago
    Besides, what are you going to do with your <fill in the blank>? It'll be gone sooner or later
    - gattilorenz 10y ago
      The difference being, there's not much use for your heart once you're dead. Not only that, but it's useless even for your family, since they can't simply sell it or profit in any way as they would with most things (unless you're also advocating for the family right to sell your organs).
- orf 10y ago
  > Stolen Sorry, you mean some critical organs used to save others lives after you die? Or where you planning to use that lovely healthy heart after you die, when a patient in the next room is dying because they cant find a suitable transplant.
  - Randgalt 10y ago
    So, other's needs trump my desires?
    - ceejayoz 10y ago
      Why not? You can't punch me. You can't take my stuff. You can't build a roof over my property.
    - adrianN 10y ago
      They do so all the time. That's what it means to live in a society.
    - orf 10y ago
      In some cases, yes. This is a key part of a society. Your desires are not absolute and should not be obeyed to a T just because they are yours. In any case your desire to not donate your organs to help others can and will be respected. Why is it only Americans who have these strange 'screw everyone else' tendencies and opinions which seem to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny?
- Nexxxeh 10y ago
  1)Ownership is a bit of a moot point at that point, because you are already dead. 2)Your wishes will still be respected assuming you took the relevant steps before you died. The difference now is that the default assumption is that you aren't selfish enough to deny life and quality of life to those who are left behind. It's not likely you need your heart, lungs, liver, corneas etc. You are, at this stage, already dead. 3)If one is sufficiently selfish to doom those in need of a transplant, there's a register for that. 4)Your body probably isn't going to just stay wherever you died anyway. The responsibility for dealing with it is transferred to others regardless, what with you being dead and all.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

jhg7877 10y ago

I carry an organ donation card and have taken part in organ donation signup drives. I find this appalling as well. It's equivalent to the government giving itself ownership of your body. How can't it change the relationship between patients and doctors? It's insane. People have also quickly forgotten the organ theft scandals of the last 40 years where hospitals stole organs from bodies for research and profit.

orf 10y ago
> People have also quickly forgotten the organ theft scandals of the last 40 years where hospitals stole organs from bodies for research and profit. Which they wouldn't have done if there was a ready supply of donated organs, instead of a critical shortage.
- jhg7877 10y ago
  I suggest you do some research about the organ retention scandals in the UK and Ireland and how it affected grieving families. It's horrifying and would make any rational person seriosuly question opt-out organ donation given the unethical behaviour of hospitals for decades. "According to Colgan, babies' bodies were filled with sand, so they would be the correct weight when loved ones held them for the last time. Pituitary glands of thousands of children (and some adults) were sold to pharmaceutical companies unbeknownst to their families."[1] [1] http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/the-scandal-of-organ-retention-26558440.html http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/the-scandal-of... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Hey_organs_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Hey_organs_scandal
  - orf 10y ago
    I agree, that does sound pretty bad. But I fail to see how it relates in any way to organ donation. > The Alder Hey organs scandal involved the unauthorised removal, retention, and disposal of human tissue The key word is unauthorised.

ceejayoz 10y ago

> Are not our bodies our own? In most developed-world societies, definitely not. There are extensive restrictions on suicide, volunteering for cannibalism, disposal of bodies, etc.

Randgalt 10y ago
So then I assume you support prohibitions on drug use, the draft, etc.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  Sure! Driving while stoned/drunk should be illegal so someone else's drug use doesn't kill me, and the draft has a place for true national emergencies like another world war or something like Yellowstone cooking off. I like being part of a society that doesn't look like a MMA free-for-all.