11 ms·

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchpads, dodgy networking, haphazard sleep (and that's before we get into the quality of the available hardware). I want to actually do things with my computer, not spend my time fixing glitches.

jclardy 10y ago
Similar story here. Used linux in my HS/early college years, but switched to Mac when the swapped to intel. Recently looked at the possibilities of using linux again, but haven't really found any hardware that "just works." There is that one dell ubuntu dev laptop, but that is a pretty expensive gamble at $1800. The best luck I've had for now is installing ubuntu on a crappy cheap Samsung Chromebook. Runs really well and everything seems to work fine, but the hardware is junk (The screen is atrocious coming from retina IPS displays.) Fun to play around with though, plus the battery life is incredible for it's $180 price tag.
- brightball 10y ago
  I've got a Dell dev laptop on order now. Hope to give a full report on how well it work soon. Dell has a 30 day return policy for what it's worth though.
  - chucksmash 10y ago
    I've owned and used both the Dell Precision M3800 and now the Precision 5510 running Ubuntu. They've generally worked well for me. The M3800 with UHD screen and discrete graphics generally sounded like a jet taking off when the fan was going. The 5510 is practically silent in my experience and works more reliably to boot (e.g. I have a lot less trouble with the new Intel WiFi card than I did with the M3800's Broadcom card). Your mileage may vary of course.
  - sevensor 10y ago
    I recently got the Precision 5500, which is great for the most part. The screen flicker is a trifle irritating, but I've had zero Linux compatibility problems. (I opted for Intel graphics.)
    - ottobonn 10y ago
      I just got one with the discrete graphics, and it works great with nvidia-prime. I only had to configure the touchpad a bit to avoid bumping it while I type. I upgraded from my beloved T420, and this is a great laptop.
- ianai 10y ago
  What chromebook and how hard was the install? I hear you on the display. My retina screen makes anything else painful.
  - CyberFonic 10y ago
    I have a Samsung ARM (2 core, 2G RAM, 16G Flash) based ChromeBook, Model XE303C12. It's rather simple to get Linux to work on it. You first enable developer mode and then install Crouton (which basically runs a full fledged Linux in chroot jail - to satisfy the based Linux install. It works exceptionally well and I generally get about 10 hours of use on each battery charge. I store my work in progress on a USB3 USB flash drive. The screen is only 1366 x 768 and the touchpad is rather lousy. So given the shortcomings, I've gone back to using an old MBP. Maybe buying a second-hand MBA and installing Linux on that is the better option.
    - ianai 10y ago
      It really seems like only Apple can do touchpads. Thank you for the feedback! It saves me doing it and regretting it. Though some of them have better monitors.
- djdmngz 10y ago
  We have more than one (dell.com/sputnik), several of which are less than $1800. If you're in Europe, you can also order online most of our Latitudes with Ubuntu too (should be able to by phone in the US too).
dajohnson89 10y ago
Agreed. I pay extra $$ for system 76 machines for just this reason. Things just work.
- dogismycopilot 10y ago
  I haven't found a model from system 76 that has a display more than 1080x1920, but I really want to support them.
  - dajohnson89 10y ago
    To be fair, I've only bought their Meerkat (like a Mac Mini). I looked at their laptop offerings, but couldn't justify the high price for underwhelming specs. I wound up giving up and just buying a $200 Chromebook.
r1k 10y ago
Yes, yes, exactly this. I've been using Linux for 15+ years on my desk/laptop, but switched to Mac roughly one year ago. I'm afraid I can never go back.
ronjouch 10y ago
FUD. I do use the features you are mentioning, but encounter none of the issues. Thinkpad + Arch user. We Linux users need to realize we are an island, and it's our duty to: - Either Linux-QA-check on our own / as a community the hardware we're buying before we buy, because the constructor isn't doing it (it's doing it for the actively supported OS, Windows). - Or buy {System76 / Thinkpad}, and get {a lot of / some} help from the constructor. EDIT: agreed that Mac hardware quality is miles ahead though, not contradicting you on this specific point.
- UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
  > FUD. That's a very disrespectful way of starting a post. In particular as you conclude that you largely agree with them. So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? In either case, seems unconstructive.
  - dumb-saint 10y ago
    For fuck's sake, grow a thicker skin.
  - ronjouch 10y ago
    > So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? They're spreading the FUD that Linux laptop hardware support is frustrating, no questions asked. It's FUD because it's a fear-inducing oversimplification of the current state of things, which is that Linux laptop hardware support is enjoyable -if you do your homework-.
    - Tinyyy 10y ago
      From your perspective, maybe. But it's a very close minded thing to say.
    - macinjosh 10y ago
      I think the point was that most would rather just have a machine that works out of the box so they can do their actual work instead of 'doing their homework' on how to get their machine to hibernate, connect to wifi reliably, etc...
karussell 10y ago
I agree to this, but Linux gives other advantages in the long run like better updates and greater independence. Furthermore you have a lot less problems these days with Linux IMO and so often the quirks are fast to fix. E.g. the full installation cost me 1h plus 1h for copying my old data and I could start working.
fpoling 10y ago
In my experience Linux on Mac when the hardware is supported brings overall better experience for development than Mac OS. USB-to-anything dongles that just work without any driver installation, much better behaviour under memory pressure, container technologies that allows to run not-so-trusted software without overhead of VM, fancy networking setups for stimulating production setups. For that I tolerate ocasional (like twice in a week) forced power offs when the notebook does not wake up or when wifi stops working.
- therealmarv 10y ago
  About drivers: You are right... but things get a lot lot more messy if your specific USB driver is not maintained in the Linux Kernel. I have the opposite experience with memory pressure (speaking only about desktop here). macOS (& Windows) do memory compression by default and most of Linuxes I know don't do that by default. I also have the feeling that at least desktop Linux get's incredible slow when you run out of memory and swapping begins (never encountered similar amount of slowliness on Windows or macOS with low memory). Regarding container technology and macOS. If you are into docker checkout latest dlite beta: https://github.com/nlf/dlite/releases https://github.com/nlf/dlite/releases It runs docker on Kernel virtualization level on macOS with xhyve without the need of VirtualBox etc.
  - fpoling 10y ago
    I always activate zswap as a part of Linux installation. With that Linux handles memory pressure better than mac os or Windows especially when the size of dataset reaches 130-150% of RAM.
  - chrizel 10y ago
    I installed Docker today on a fresh macOS installation and was very delighted to find out that VirtualBox is no longer required. The latest official Docker version for Mac uses HyperKit, also based on xhyve.
forgotpwtomain 10y ago
> dodgy networking Had recurring wifi issues on a Macbook Pro as well (as did many of my co-workers)... Not saying it's great on Linux but I would hardly call the alternatives much better...
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Same, after about 48 hours uptime my MacBook will start dropping network connection every few minutes. This can only be cured by a full reboot. The MacBook also regularly (at least once per week) drops all input devices (including built in keyboard and trackpad), which can only be cured by a hard power-strangle and reboot. My colleagues experience the same problems too. Basically, the ultra-reliable Mac is a myth, its as prone to failure as any computer.
  - afarrell 10y ago
    I've never experienced this. Have you considered taking it into the genius bar?
  - Aeolos 10y ago
    Exact same experience. Roughly 48 hours of uptime and then I have to reboot in order to maintain a SSH connection. That, and Finder that becomes unusably slow after working with images for a few hours. (Admittedly, tens of thousands of images, but it degrades to the point that merely opening an empty folder takes 2-3 seconds.)
  - ianamartin 10y ago
    I have this issue with my 11" MacBook Air as well as my 15" MacBook Pro from work. I do not have the issue with my personal MacBook Pro, which is identical hardware configuration and model to my work machine. All are running the same version of macOS. It's honestly a kind of a mystery to me.
- guelo 10y ago
  Same. Also never-ending Bluetooth issues.
lisivka 10y ago
I had none of problem stated above for years. I use/used Acer/Dell/HP/Medion notebooks with Fedora Linux.
stewbrew 10y ago
I'm running linux on my laptops for decades and experienced none of the problems you mentioned. Everything works flawlessly. If you plan to run linux on your laptop, you will have to research first how well the computer is supported. You can't install MacOS (or even Windows) on just any computer neither.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  I'll raise you one and say that even if you installed Linux on a laptop built for Linux, it would still be inferior to a MacBook. I bought a System76 GalagoPro a few years back, today it is a media center. It's the most use it's gotten since I bought it.
  - AsyncAwait 10y ago
    Depends...I had more problems with my work MBP to be honest than with my Arch clevo laptop I use at home. On the MBP, I experience semi-frequent freezes, kernel panics, overheating, unstable WiFi, inaccurate battery status reporting, scaling issues, occasional green tint, FS lock up etc. - it's still nice, but I wouldn't say it's more smooth than modern Linux with GNOME 3, in fact I've had much less problems with that setup than with my MBP.
  - dkuntz2 10y ago
    Arguably the difference is still the amount of resources Apple throws at the Macbook line compared to the amount of resources System76 throws at their computers. Truth be told I'd rather buy a Thinkpad or Dell XPS than a System76 laptop. Apple has engineers dedicated to building hardware and software that work together. They design and manufacture their own hardware. System76 doesn't. They pick out some components, and get them assembled elsewhere, and ship that out to you. A better comparison would be Dell's XPS line, which at least has some number of people actively working on making sure they work well and are well supported, but still not to the same degree as Apple, and my understanding is they're generally told "make this work with Linux", as opposed to building a laptop specifically for linux.
ziotom78 10y ago
I'm probably the only one around here that went from Mac to Linux... I decided to do this after a number of frustrating problems with hardware: ethernet port not working [1] and a severely swollen battery (although I followed all the advices to prevent this) which was not covered by the warranty "because of the laptop's serial number". I decided to buy a Lenovo E540 a couple of years ago, on which I run Linux Mint: I like KDE's awesome interface add much add I liked Mac OS X's. I wouldn't ever go back... [1] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5687308?tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5687308?tstart=0
runn1ng 10y ago
I still run Linux despite all the challenges and all the hardware constantly breaking and working just-not-right, because I just love the openness and I don't understand how can Apple (and windows) users survive without "apt-get". Homebrew is a poor substitute for me. I am basically using linux just for apt-get, the configurability and the ability to test server-side software in the same-ish environment as it will actually run in is a nice plus. But yeah, people that argue that "there are no issues" are either lying or were incredibly lucky. I actually bought a laptop that had ubuntu pre-installed that stopped working immediately after doing a system update! (Because the laptop had a binary blob driver for a graphic card, and that stopped working with some new kernel or whatever.)
- michaelmior 10y ago
  Being a current Linux and former macOS user, I actually miss Homebrew sometimes. It's much easier to get recent versions of software and also easier to set up your own repository (tap).
  - lucaspiller 10y ago
    This is one of the reasons why Arch is so popular, AUR + a client has a very similar feeling to Homebrew.
    - y_u_no_rust 10y ago
      opensuse tumbleweed is also pretty slick
    - michaelmior 10y ago
      Huh. Didn't know. Perhaps I should take a look at Arch more seriously :)
- bramblerose 10y ago
  Consider using a VM, and using either Windows or OS X as graphical user interface. You can then easily SSH into the VM, and do most of the development there. If you run a samba (or nfs) server on the VM, you can even easily use e.g. VS Code. Add an X server and you can run (albeit not very fast) run graphical programs (e.g. and IDE) as well.
phaedrix 10y ago
I recently switched back to Linux (ThinkPad/Arch/Kernel4.8) after 5 years using a Macbook Pro (after using linux for 5 years previously). Linux hardware support has become much better without a doubt. However just in the last couple days I've had the following sporadic issues: * External usb keyboard/mouse simply wouldn't work (and doesn't show up in lsusb). Restart fixed. * If left overnight, occasionally won't wake up from sleep; requires restart. * Upon start trackpad/trackpoint occasionally doesn't work; do not show up in xinput; probably fixable, but haven't dug into it. On the other hand, mac had its own issues: * Macbook takes relatively forever to come back from sleep; thinkpad is practically immediate. * Macbook wireless constantly has issues connecting, to the point of having to turn off wireless and back on multiple times (this occurs often). * Opening many tabs in chrome on mac causes serious slowdowns. Have yet to see any slowdown on thinkpad even with 20-30 tabs. This also goes generally for mac beachball issues. In general, Arch/i3 combo is far better than MacOS for my needs (95% of time in terminal/browser).
- Twirrim 10y ago
  >* Macbook takes relatively forever to come back from sleep; thinkpad is practically immediate. Waking up from sleep has been nice and fast in Linux for a while, but I have to say that regardless of all the frustrations I've found using OS X over the last year, waking from sleep isn't one of them. It has been nice and fast every time. >* Macbook wireless constantly has issues connecting, to the point of having to turn off wireless and back on multiple times (this occurs often). I've found wireless to be a really bizarre experience on OS X. If there are two networks it can connect to in range, it doesn't seem to pay much attention to the strength of the signal, and it always seems to overstate how strong the signal is (that may feed into the former). I can be sitting in the same room as another wireless endpoint, and it'll choose the one furthest away from it, where wireless strength is pretty low, and constantly suffer communication problems. I've made it a point now to go check which wifi it has connected to.
  - JonnieCache 10y ago
    It has a user definable order of preference across all SSIDs which you can tweak in network preferences.
digi_owl 10y ago
The basic issue with all this is hardware manufacturers, and their fire and forget attitudes towards products. Thus they barely get their stuff working on the major commercial platforms, and all the rest have to either beg for specs so they can write their own (good luck) or reverse engineers (and risking bricking the hardware because of abusing standards for firmware flashing and whatsnot). And your primary complaint boils down to power management, aka ACPI. And it, like UEFI, suffers from the second system effect (Linus Torvalds do not hold either in high regard for example). There is at least one documented case of a name brand motherboard offering up junk ACPI data unless Linux claimed to be Windows. Linux appears to be at a standstill because each time a new motherboard or expansion card gets released, the process basically starts from ground zero unless it happens to be based of some bottom of the barrel chip with zero modifications so the Linux devs can just add another product ID to the driver table and call it a day (resulting in things like USB webcam drivers that support some 100+ camera models).
- bblough 10y ago
  > There is at least one documented case of a name brand motherboard offering up junk ACPI data unless Linux claimed to be Windows I hadn't heard about this and was curious. Google turned up this: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249 https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249
- user5994461 10y ago
  > Thus they barely get their stuff working on the major commercial platforms, and all the rest have to either beg for specs so they can write their own (good luck) or reverse engineers (and risking bricking the hardware because of abusing standards for firmware flashing and whatsnot). Thus the shortest way to get a working system is to stop being an hipster and use one of the major commercial platforms.
  - AsyncAwait 10y ago
    > Thus the shortest way to get a working system is to stop being an hipster and use one of the major commercial platforms. Being a hipster has very little to do with using Linux these days. Wanting a productive, customisable work environment has a lot, on the other hand.
phaus 10y ago
All operating systems suffer from similar random, minor, glitchy issues. I use all three extensively on a daily basis and while there are things I like about all three, there are also things I dislike about each of them. Linux is generally a little worse. However, from my experience Windows and MacOS are approximately equally buggy in comparison to one another. An example of an issue I have with my Macbook is that every single day I have to plug my network cable into it 2-4 times before it will recognize the connection.
keypress 10y ago
Witnessed both a mac and windows machine having software/networking glitches, both with non-esoteric hardware pretty much at factory settings. I wish it was a case of use just fire up and forget, but sadly 'bugs' plague all platforms.
ailideex 10y ago
I don't really have problems with any of these things ...

jclardy 10y ago

Similar story here. Used linux in my HS/early college years, but switched to Mac when the swapped to intel. Recently looked at the possibilities of using linux again, but haven't really found any hardware that "just works." There is that one dell ubuntu dev laptop, but that is a pretty expensive gamble at $1800. The best luck I've had for now is installing ubuntu on a crappy cheap Samsung Chromebook. Runs really well and everything seems to work fine, but the hardware is junk (The screen is atrocious coming from retina IPS displays.) Fun to play around with though, plus the battery life is incredible for it's $180 price tag.

brightball 10y ago
I've got a Dell dev laptop on order now. Hope to give a full report on how well it work soon. Dell has a 30 day return policy for what it's worth though.
- chucksmash 10y ago
  I've owned and used both the Dell Precision M3800 and now the Precision 5510 running Ubuntu. They've generally worked well for me. The M3800 with UHD screen and discrete graphics generally sounded like a jet taking off when the fan was going. The 5510 is practically silent in my experience and works more reliably to boot (e.g. I have a lot less trouble with the new Intel WiFi card than I did with the M3800's Broadcom card). Your mileage may vary of course.
- sevensor 10y ago
  I recently got the Precision 5500, which is great for the most part. The screen flicker is a trifle irritating, but I've had zero Linux compatibility problems. (I opted for Intel graphics.)
  - ottobonn 10y ago
    I just got one with the discrete graphics, and it works great with nvidia-prime. I only had to configure the touchpad a bit to avoid bumping it while I type. I upgraded from my beloved T420, and this is a great laptop.
ianai 10y ago
What chromebook and how hard was the install? I hear you on the display. My retina screen makes anything else painful.
- CyberFonic 10y ago
  I have a Samsung ARM (2 core, 2G RAM, 16G Flash) based ChromeBook, Model XE303C12. It's rather simple to get Linux to work on it. You first enable developer mode and then install Crouton (which basically runs a full fledged Linux in chroot jail - to satisfy the based Linux install. It works exceptionally well and I generally get about 10 hours of use on each battery charge. I store my work in progress on a USB3 USB flash drive. The screen is only 1366 x 768 and the touchpad is rather lousy. So given the shortcomings, I've gone back to using an old MBP. Maybe buying a second-hand MBA and installing Linux on that is the better option.
  - ianai 10y ago
    It really seems like only Apple can do touchpads. Thank you for the feedback! It saves me doing it and regretting it. Though some of them have better monitors.
djdmngz 10y ago
We have more than one (dell.com/sputnik), several of which are less than $1800. If you're in Europe, you can also order online most of our Latitudes with Ubuntu too (should be able to by phone in the US too).

dajohnson89 10y ago

Agreed. I pay extra $$ for system 76 machines for just this reason. Things just work.

dogismycopilot 10y ago
I haven't found a model from system 76 that has a display more than 1080x1920, but I really want to support them.
- dajohnson89 10y ago
  To be fair, I've only bought their Meerkat (like a Mac Mini). I looked at their laptop offerings, but couldn't justify the high price for underwhelming specs. I wound up giving up and just buying a $200 Chromebook.

r1k 10y ago

Yes, yes, exactly this. I've been using Linux for 15+ years on my desk/laptop, but switched to Mac roughly one year ago. I'm afraid I can never go back.

ronjouch 10y ago

FUD. I do use the features you are mentioning, but encounter none of the issues. Thinkpad + Arch user. We Linux users need to realize we are an island, and it's our duty to: - Either Linux-QA-check on our own / as a community the hardware we're buying before we buy, because the constructor isn't doing it (it's doing it for the actively supported OS, Windows). - Or buy {System76 / Thinkpad}, and get {a lot of / some} help from the constructor. EDIT: agreed that Mac hardware quality is miles ahead though, not contradicting you on this specific point.

UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
> FUD. That's a very disrespectful way of starting a post. In particular as you conclude that you largely agree with them. So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? In either case, seems unconstructive.
- dumb-saint 10y ago
  For fuck's sake, grow a thicker skin.
- ronjouch 10y ago
  > So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? They're spreading the FUD that Linux laptop hardware support is frustrating, no questions asked. It's FUD because it's a fear-inducing oversimplification of the current state of things, which is that Linux laptop hardware support is enjoyable -if you do your homework-.
  - Tinyyy 10y ago
    From your perspective, maybe. But it's a very close minded thing to say.
  - macinjosh 10y ago
    I think the point was that most would rather just have a machine that works out of the box so they can do their actual work instead of 'doing their homework' on how to get their machine to hibernate, connect to wifi reliably, etc...

karussell 10y ago

I agree to this, but Linux gives other advantages in the long run like better updates and greater independence. Furthermore you have a lot less problems these days with Linux IMO and so often the quirks are fast to fix. E.g. the full installation cost me 1h plus 1h for copying my old data and I could start working.

fpoling 10y ago

In my experience Linux on Mac when the hardware is supported brings overall better experience for development than Mac OS. USB-to-anything dongles that just work without any driver installation, much better behaviour under memory pressure, container technologies that allows to run not-so-trusted software without overhead of VM, fancy networking setups for stimulating production setups. For that I tolerate ocasional (like twice in a week) forced power offs when the notebook does not wake up or when wifi stops working.

therealmarv 10y ago
About drivers: You are right... but things get a lot lot more messy if your specific USB driver is not maintained in the Linux Kernel. I have the opposite experience with memory pressure (speaking only about desktop here). macOS (& Windows) do memory compression by default and most of Linuxes I know don't do that by default. I also have the feeling that at least desktop Linux get's incredible slow when you run out of memory and swapping begins (never encountered similar amount of slowliness on Windows or macOS with low memory). Regarding container technology and macOS. If you are into docker checkout latest dlite beta: https://github.com/nlf/dlite/releases https://github.com/nlf/dlite/releases It runs docker on Kernel virtualization level on macOS with xhyve without the need of VirtualBox etc.
- fpoling 10y ago
  I always activate zswap as a part of Linux installation. With that Linux handles memory pressure better than mac os or Windows especially when the size of dataset reaches 130-150% of RAM.
- chrizel 10y ago
  I installed Docker today on a fresh macOS installation and was very delighted to find out that VirtualBox is no longer required. The latest official Docker version for Mac uses HyperKit, also based on xhyve.

forgotpwtomain 10y ago

> dodgy networking Had recurring wifi issues on a Macbook Pro as well (as did many of my co-workers)... Not saying it's great on Linux but I would hardly call the alternatives much better...

s_kilk 10y ago
Same, after about 48 hours uptime my MacBook will start dropping network connection every few minutes. This can only be cured by a full reboot. The MacBook also regularly (at least once per week) drops all input devices (including built in keyboard and trackpad), which can only be cured by a hard power-strangle and reboot. My colleagues experience the same problems too. Basically, the ultra-reliable Mac is a myth, its as prone to failure as any computer.
- afarrell 10y ago
  I've never experienced this. Have you considered taking it into the genius bar?
- Aeolos 10y ago
  Exact same experience. Roughly 48 hours of uptime and then I have to reboot in order to maintain a SSH connection. That, and Finder that becomes unusably slow after working with images for a few hours. (Admittedly, tens of thousands of images, but it degrades to the point that merely opening an empty folder takes 2-3 seconds.)
- ianamartin 10y ago
  I have this issue with my 11" MacBook Air as well as my 15" MacBook Pro from work. I do not have the issue with my personal MacBook Pro, which is identical hardware configuration and model to my work machine. All are running the same version of macOS. It's honestly a kind of a mystery to me.
guelo 10y ago
Same. Also never-ending Bluetooth issues.

lisivka 10y ago

I had none of problem stated above for years. I use/used Acer/Dell/HP/Medion notebooks with Fedora Linux.

stewbrew 10y ago

I'm running linux on my laptops for decades and experienced none of the problems you mentioned. Everything works flawlessly. If you plan to run linux on your laptop, you will have to research first how well the computer is supported. You can't install MacOS (or even Windows) on just any computer neither.

vinceguidry 10y ago
I'll raise you one and say that even if you installed Linux on a laptop built for Linux, it would still be inferior to a MacBook. I bought a System76 GalagoPro a few years back, today it is a media center. It's the most use it's gotten since I bought it.
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  Depends...I had more problems with my work MBP to be honest than with my Arch clevo laptop I use at home. On the MBP, I experience semi-frequent freezes, kernel panics, overheating, unstable WiFi, inaccurate battery status reporting, scaling issues, occasional green tint, FS lock up etc. - it's still nice, but I wouldn't say it's more smooth than modern Linux with GNOME 3, in fact I've had much less problems with that setup than with my MBP.
- dkuntz2 10y ago
  Arguably the difference is still the amount of resources Apple throws at the Macbook line compared to the amount of resources System76 throws at their computers. Truth be told I'd rather buy a Thinkpad or Dell XPS than a System76 laptop. Apple has engineers dedicated to building hardware and software that work together. They design and manufacture their own hardware. System76 doesn't. They pick out some components, and get them assembled elsewhere, and ship that out to you. A better comparison would be Dell's XPS line, which at least has some number of people actively working on making sure they work well and are well supported, but still not to the same degree as Apple, and my understanding is they're generally told "make this work with Linux", as opposed to building a laptop specifically for linux.

ziotom78 10y ago

I'm probably the only one around here that went from Mac to Linux... I decided to do this after a number of frustrating problems with hardware: ethernet port not working [1] and a severely swollen battery (although I followed all the advices to prevent this) which was not covered by the warranty "because of the laptop's serial number". I decided to buy a Lenovo E540 a couple of years ago, on which I run Linux Mint: I like KDE's awesome interface add much add I liked Mac OS X's. I wouldn't ever go back... [1] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5687308?tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5687308?tstart=0

runn1ng 10y ago

I still run Linux despite all the challenges and all the hardware constantly breaking and working just-not-right, because I just love the openness and I don't understand how can Apple (and windows) users survive without "apt-get". Homebrew is a poor substitute for me. I am basically using linux just for apt-get, the configurability and the ability to test server-side software in the same-ish environment as it will actually run in is a nice plus. But yeah, people that argue that "there are no issues" are either lying or were incredibly lucky. I actually bought a laptop that had ubuntu pre-installed that stopped working immediately after doing a system update! (Because the laptop had a binary blob driver for a graphic card, and that stopped working with some new kernel or whatever.)

michaelmior 10y ago
Being a current Linux and former macOS user, I actually miss Homebrew sometimes. It's much easier to get recent versions of software and also easier to set up your own repository (tap).
- lucaspiller 10y ago
  This is one of the reasons why Arch is so popular, AUR + a client has a very similar feeling to Homebrew.
  - y_u_no_rust 10y ago
    opensuse tumbleweed is also pretty slick
  - michaelmior 10y ago
    Huh. Didn't know. Perhaps I should take a look at Arch more seriously :)
bramblerose 10y ago
Consider using a VM, and using either Windows or OS X as graphical user interface. You can then easily SSH into the VM, and do most of the development there. If you run a samba (or nfs) server on the VM, you can even easily use e.g. VS Code. Add an X server and you can run (albeit not very fast) run graphical programs (e.g. and IDE) as well.

phaedrix 10y ago

I recently switched back to Linux (ThinkPad/Arch/Kernel4.8) after 5 years using a Macbook Pro (after using linux for 5 years previously). Linux hardware support has become much better without a doubt. However just in the last couple days I've had the following sporadic issues: * External usb keyboard/mouse simply wouldn't work (and doesn't show up in lsusb). Restart fixed. * If left overnight, occasionally won't wake up from sleep; requires restart. * Upon start trackpad/trackpoint occasionally doesn't work; do not show up in xinput; probably fixable, but haven't dug into it. On the other hand, mac had its own issues: * Macbook takes relatively forever to come back from sleep; thinkpad is practically immediate. * Macbook wireless constantly has issues connecting, to the point of having to turn off wireless and back on multiple times (this occurs often). * Opening many tabs in chrome on mac causes serious slowdowns. Have yet to see any slowdown on thinkpad even with 20-30 tabs. This also goes generally for mac beachball issues. In general, Arch/i3 combo is far better than MacOS for my needs (95% of time in terminal/browser).

Twirrim 10y ago
>* Macbook takes relatively forever to come back from sleep; thinkpad is practically immediate. Waking up from sleep has been nice and fast in Linux for a while, but I have to say that regardless of all the frustrations I've found using OS X over the last year, waking from sleep isn't one of them. It has been nice and fast every time. >* Macbook wireless constantly has issues connecting, to the point of having to turn off wireless and back on multiple times (this occurs often). I've found wireless to be a really bizarre experience on OS X. If there are two networks it can connect to in range, it doesn't seem to pay much attention to the strength of the signal, and it always seems to overstate how strong the signal is (that may feed into the former). I can be sitting in the same room as another wireless endpoint, and it'll choose the one furthest away from it, where wireless strength is pretty low, and constantly suffer communication problems. I've made it a point now to go check which wifi it has connected to.
- JonnieCache 10y ago
  It has a user definable order of preference across all SSIDs which you can tweak in network preferences.

digi_owl 10y ago

The basic issue with all this is hardware manufacturers, and their fire and forget attitudes towards products. Thus they barely get their stuff working on the major commercial platforms, and all the rest have to either beg for specs so they can write their own (good luck) or reverse engineers (and risking bricking the hardware because of abusing standards for firmware flashing and whatsnot). And your primary complaint boils down to power management, aka ACPI. And it, like UEFI, suffers from the second system effect (Linus Torvalds do not hold either in high regard for example). There is at least one documented case of a name brand motherboard offering up junk ACPI data unless Linux claimed to be Windows. Linux appears to be at a standstill because each time a new motherboard or expansion card gets released, the process basically starts from ground zero unless it happens to be based of some bottom of the barrel chip with zero modifications so the Linux devs can just add another product ID to the driver table and call it a day (resulting in things like USB webcam drivers that support some 100+ camera models).

bblough 10y ago
> There is at least one documented case of a name brand motherboard offering up junk ACPI data unless Linux claimed to be Windows I hadn't heard about this and was curious. Google turned up this: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249 https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249
user5994461 10y ago
> Thus they barely get their stuff working on the major commercial platforms, and all the rest have to either beg for specs so they can write their own (good luck) or reverse engineers (and risking bricking the hardware because of abusing standards for firmware flashing and whatsnot). Thus the shortest way to get a working system is to stop being an hipster and use one of the major commercial platforms.
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  > Thus the shortest way to get a working system is to stop being an hipster and use one of the major commercial platforms. Being a hipster has very little to do with using Linux these days. Wanting a productive, customisable work environment has a lot, on the other hand.

phaus 10y ago

All operating systems suffer from similar random, minor, glitchy issues. I use all three extensively on a daily basis and while there are things I like about all three, there are also things I dislike about each of them. Linux is generally a little worse. However, from my experience Windows and MacOS are approximately equally buggy in comparison to one another. An example of an issue I have with my Macbook is that every single day I have to plug my network cable into it 2-4 times before it will recognize the connection.

keypress 10y ago

Witnessed both a mac and windows machine having software/networking glitches, both with non-esoteric hardware pretty much at factory settings. I wish it was a case of use just fire up and forget, but sadly 'bugs' plague all platforms.

ailideex 10y ago

I don't really have problems with any of these things ...