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> I am strongly in favor of drug legalization, because I am from Mexico. Drug traffic is ruinous for the Mexican economy, even if you didn't care ethically abou

by mjolk 10y ago

> I am strongly in favor of drug legalization, because I am from Mexico. Drug traffic is ruinous for the Mexican economy, even if you didn't care ethically about the human cost of a >250,000 death toll in the last 10 years... If the Mexican government is unable to keep its people from getting killed as a result of a neighboring country policing intoxicants, that's a failure of the Mexican government to control crime within its borders, not reason for another nation to change its laws -- you're asking not just for decriminalization, but also legal native manufacturing of addictive substances in the US, as otherwise the lucrative export market would continue to exist.

witty_username 10y ago
If drugs were legal to produce and distribute then it wouldn't be a black market and thus violence and criminality would reduce (people wouldn't buy from shady characters; they'd just go to the store and buy it like anything else). I don't know any ricelords or any significant criminal gangs that distribute rice. This is only a problem encountered with drugs and other illegal things. Also, (paraphrasing Milton Friedman), drug users don't report the crime unlike other crimes like burglary or murder because the victim is the offender.
- mjolk 10y ago
  > If drugs were legal to produce and distribute then it wouldn't be a black market and thus violence and criminality would reduce (people wouldn't buy from shady characters; they'd just go to the store and buy it like anything else). Criminality _related to the import/export/sale of the drugs_. If you think this would be without side effects, you haven't spent much time in an area with methheads or heroin addicts. And, for what it's worth, it's very easy to purchase drugs from non-shady characters, especially in major US cities (a friend of mine used to text his dealer and a business-casual dressed woman would show up with a wheeling briefcase). > I don't know any ricelords or any significant criminal gangs that distribute rice. This is only a problem encountered with drugs and other illegal things. If you use the semantics of "criminal gangs", then you've framed the argument in a way that makes it impossible to debate. Of course "criminal gangs" do "illegal things" (prostitution, substances, etc), that's why they're called criminal gangs. In a country with a stronger rule of law, they're forced to at least have a front, such as sanitation, pay day loans, unions, etc. > Also, (paraphrasing Milton Friedman), drug users don't report the crime unlike other crimes like burglary or murder because the victim is the offender. Eh, for casual, functional users. The water gets murky when the users subsist on government services or become unemployed due to substance abuse. The case against legalizing all drugs isn't particularly concerned about a bank teller taking psilocybin mushrooms and sitting in her back yard on a Sunday afternoon.
lazaroclapp 10y ago
> If the Mexican government is unable to keep its people from getting killed as a result of a neighboring country policing intoxicants, that's a failure of the Mexican government to control crime within its borders Sure. But: a) it is reality, the Mexican state is not strong enough to solve that problem given the economics of the huge market for drugs in the US, b) my hypothesis is that the US would also benefit from legalizing drugs, producing them, taxing them and treating the problem as a healthcare matter (similar to what it does for alcohol, tobacco, and better than it currently does about prescription opiates). I do not think harmful consumption would increase in the US after legalization, and I think better quality controls and openness would make it harder for people to overdose and easier for them to get treated. This is of course not tested, but my sincere belief is that it would help both the US and Mexico, and at this point it would be a lot quicker than what needs to happen in Mexico for the trade to end on our end.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  You could make a system that checks on your lifesigns- if you get high.

by mjolk 10y ago

witty_username 10y ago

If drugs were legal to produce and distribute then it wouldn't be a black market and thus violence and criminality would reduce (people wouldn't buy from shady characters; they'd just go to the store and buy it like anything else). I don't know any ricelords or any significant criminal gangs that distribute rice. This is only a problem encountered with drugs and other illegal things. Also, (paraphrasing Milton Friedman), drug users don't report the crime unlike other crimes like burglary or murder because the victim is the offender.

mjolk 10y ago
> If drugs were legal to produce and distribute then it wouldn't be a black market and thus violence and criminality would reduce (people wouldn't buy from shady characters; they'd just go to the store and buy it like anything else). Criminality _related to the import/export/sale of the drugs_. If you think this would be without side effects, you haven't spent much time in an area with methheads or heroin addicts. And, for what it's worth, it's very easy to purchase drugs from non-shady characters, especially in major US cities (a friend of mine used to text his dealer and a business-casual dressed woman would show up with a wheeling briefcase). > I don't know any ricelords or any significant criminal gangs that distribute rice. This is only a problem encountered with drugs and other illegal things. If you use the semantics of "criminal gangs", then you've framed the argument in a way that makes it impossible to debate. Of course "criminal gangs" do "illegal things" (prostitution, substances, etc), that's why they're called criminal gangs. In a country with a stronger rule of law, they're forced to at least have a front, such as sanitation, pay day loans, unions, etc. > Also, (paraphrasing Milton Friedman), drug users don't report the crime unlike other crimes like burglary or murder because the victim is the offender. Eh, for casual, functional users. The water gets murky when the users subsist on government services or become unemployed due to substance abuse. The case against legalizing all drugs isn't particularly concerned about a bank teller taking psilocybin mushrooms and sitting in her back yard on a Sunday afternoon.

lazaroclapp 10y ago

> If the Mexican government is unable to keep its people from getting killed as a result of a neighboring country policing intoxicants, that's a failure of the Mexican government to control crime within its borders Sure. But: a) it is reality, the Mexican state is not strong enough to solve that problem given the economics of the huge market for drugs in the US, b) my hypothesis is that the US would also benefit from legalizing drugs, producing them, taxing them and treating the problem as a healthcare matter (similar to what it does for alcohol, tobacco, and better than it currently does about prescription opiates). I do not think harmful consumption would increase in the US after legalization, and I think better quality controls and openness would make it harder for people to overdose and easier for them to get treated. This is of course not tested, but my sincere belief is that it would help both the US and Mexico, and at this point it would be a lot quicker than what needs to happen in Mexico for the trade to end on our end.

Pica_soO 10y ago
You could make a system that checks on your lifesigns- if you get high.