7 ms·

Ive went with a T420 recently, mostly because of the keyboard. But also because $400 for laptop + battery + Samsung SSD + 16GB hyperX Ram sounded so cheap i cou

by herbst 10y ago

Ive went with a T420 recently, mostly because of the keyboard. But also because $400 for laptop + battery + Samsung SSD + 16GB hyperX Ram sounded so cheap i could not resist. And honestly even after a 2015 MBP it feels perfect for all my needs. In fact due to the superior RAM and SSD it feels often way faster than the MBP for 5 times that price felt. Plus it has way better battery life. Seriously Thinkpads are the best dev laptops ever.

rincebrain 10y ago
What about the T-series keyboards changed recently that bothers you? If it's actually the touchpad changes, they reverted them on the xx50 and up (or made them optional, I forget which). (Typing this from a T430 I'm using while my W550s is being repaired, and I can't recall any drastic keyboard changes that had me in an uproar in the last while.)
- herbst 10y ago
  I have not tested a t430 but the t450 feeled a lot more "mushy" or rubberdome like. The t420 has a solid click (without the "click" :/) which is something i really like. From what ive read it got worse after the t420. So it was a easy choice for me.
- chx 10y ago
  Not recently but simply the amount of keys have dropped from T420 to T430. The Home - End - PgUp - PgDn keys are the same place on my T420s (which is upgraded to a quality full HD screen) as any 101 key keyboard in the last 35+ years. Insert - Delete isn't but that's kinda OK because Insert is rarely needed anyways. Taking away the 7th row is the cardinal sin of the T430+ keyboards. Also switching to keyboard backlight from ThinkLight is a moronic decision, there are more things to light than just the keyboard.
innocentoldguy 10y ago
Have their trackpads improved at all during the last five years?
- herbst 10y ago
  I dont know. But the keyboard got slightly worse.
- JoshTriplett 10y ago
  The current X1 Carbon has an excellent trackpad, to the point that I actually consider the trackpad a usable alternative to the stick.
  - rifung 10y ago
    Palm detection is pretty terrible still though (on Linux at least). Tap to click is unusable for me for this reason.
    - JoshTriplett 10y ago
      libinput has much better palm detection than synaptics. Personally, I haven't had tap to click enabled for a long time, since I have physical mouse buttons available.
- criddell 10y ago
  I don't know why Lenovo doesn't just flat out copy the behavior of Apple's trackpad.
tommica 10y ago
Huh, didn't know that t420 supported 16gb of ram - time to upgrade my trusty & dusty workhorse!
- jlgaddis 10y ago
  It's "unofficially" supported but it does work if you stick to the recommended RAM. I picked up a cheap, off-lease T420 several months ago and added in 16 GB of RAM and an SSD and had a pretty decent machine for ~$250 all-in.
s_kilk 10y ago
> Plus it has way better battery life. How much battery time are you getting? And which battery do you use? And are you running Linux or Windows? (I'm considering a T420 right now)
- herbst 10y ago
  Linux, the 3 cell one (the one i got it with a 2 cell has about 4 hours left). I get about 9 hours with full light and wifi and about 14 with ethernet & slightly dimmed light. Obviously linux (also Arch), i dont think Windows can be optimized for such battery life. And in my experience Arch also beats Ubuntu. At least without a lot of hacking.
  - s_kilk 10y ago
    Good to know, thanks! :)
kayoone 10y ago
The T420 is a 5 year old machine, i highly doubt it can have the same battery life as a modern Haswell/Broadwell/Skylake chip.
- herbst 10y ago
  Well i am sure more modern chip sets are better overall. But its still better with my 3 cell than i had on a brand new 2015 MBP.
  - kayoone 10y ago
    Sorry, but then you did something wrong. Since Haswell they are not only better overall but also much more energy efficient. The Macbooks went from 5-6hours to 10 in that generation.
    - herbst 10y ago
      not sure what we are arguing, maybe i should have mentioned the fact that my macbook ran OSX and my Thinkpad runs Arch Linux? I've did several battery management optimizations as well. If i could run Arch painfree on a mac i would agree that i would have better battery life most likely. I am mostly just arguing against the constant mention for "macbooks having the best battery life for developer laptops". Which is not true if you could also use a Thinkpad with Linux
jimnotgym 10y ago
Typing this from a refurb T410 with added SSD. It was dirt cheap and the only issue I have running Ubuntu on it is a funny wake-from-sleep issue that sometimes makes some text display badly. Apart from that it has a lovely keyboard and does what I need. Battery life is not an issue for me, I have a laptop due to lack of space for a desk, but I am normally plugged in. Screen res could be higher, but it makes no practical difference in writing Python code or browsing HN I wont upgrade until a) it breaks or b) someone pays me to get a new one

by herbst 10y ago

rincebrain 10y ago

What about the T-series keyboards changed recently that bothers you? If it's actually the touchpad changes, they reverted them on the xx50 and up (or made them optional, I forget which). (Typing this from a T430 I'm using while my W550s is being repaired, and I can't recall any drastic keyboard changes that had me in an uproar in the last while.)

herbst 10y ago
I have not tested a t430 but the t450 feeled a lot more "mushy" or rubberdome like. The t420 has a solid click (without the "click" :/) which is something i really like. From what ive read it got worse after the t420. So it was a easy choice for me.
chx 10y ago
Not recently but simply the amount of keys have dropped from T420 to T430. The Home - End - PgUp - PgDn keys are the same place on my T420s (which is upgraded to a quality full HD screen) as any 101 key keyboard in the last 35+ years. Insert - Delete isn't but that's kinda OK because Insert is rarely needed anyways. Taking away the 7th row is the cardinal sin of the T430+ keyboards. Also switching to keyboard backlight from ThinkLight is a moronic decision, there are more things to light than just the keyboard.

innocentoldguy 10y ago

Have their trackpads improved at all during the last five years?

herbst 10y ago
I dont know. But the keyboard got slightly worse.
JoshTriplett 10y ago
The current X1 Carbon has an excellent trackpad, to the point that I actually consider the trackpad a usable alternative to the stick.
- rifung 10y ago
  Palm detection is pretty terrible still though (on Linux at least). Tap to click is unusable for me for this reason.
  - JoshTriplett 10y ago
    libinput has much better palm detection than synaptics. Personally, I haven't had tap to click enabled for a long time, since I have physical mouse buttons available.
criddell 10y ago
I don't know why Lenovo doesn't just flat out copy the behavior of Apple's trackpad.

tommica 10y ago

Huh, didn't know that t420 supported 16gb of ram - time to upgrade my trusty & dusty workhorse!

jlgaddis 10y ago
It's "unofficially" supported but it does work if you stick to the recommended RAM. I picked up a cheap, off-lease T420 several months ago and added in 16 GB of RAM and an SSD and had a pretty decent machine for ~$250 all-in.

s_kilk 10y ago

> Plus it has way better battery life. How much battery time are you getting? And which battery do you use? And are you running Linux or Windows? (I'm considering a T420 right now)

herbst 10y ago
Linux, the 3 cell one (the one i got it with a 2 cell has about 4 hours left). I get about 9 hours with full light and wifi and about 14 with ethernet & slightly dimmed light. Obviously linux (also Arch), i dont think Windows can be optimized for such battery life. And in my experience Arch also beats Ubuntu. At least without a lot of hacking.
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Good to know, thanks! :)

kayoone 10y ago

The T420 is a 5 year old machine, i highly doubt it can have the same battery life as a modern Haswell/Broadwell/Skylake chip.

herbst 10y ago
Well i am sure more modern chip sets are better overall. But its still better with my 3 cell than i had on a brand new 2015 MBP.
- kayoone 10y ago
  Sorry, but then you did something wrong. Since Haswell they are not only better overall but also much more energy efficient. The Macbooks went from 5-6hours to 10 in that generation.
  - herbst 10y ago
    not sure what we are arguing, maybe i should have mentioned the fact that my macbook ran OSX and my Thinkpad runs Arch Linux? I've did several battery management optimizations as well. If i could run Arch painfree on a mac i would agree that i would have better battery life most likely. I am mostly just arguing against the constant mention for "macbooks having the best battery life for developer laptops". Which is not true if you could also use a Thinkpad with Linux

jimnotgym 10y ago

Typing this from a refurb T410 with added SSD. It was dirt cheap and the only issue I have running Ubuntu on it is a funny wake-from-sleep issue that sometimes makes some text display badly. Apart from that it has a lovely keyboard and does what I need. Battery life is not an issue for me, I have a laptop due to lack of space for a desk, but I am normally plugged in. Screen res could be higher, but it makes no practical difference in writing Python code or browsing HN I wont upgrade until a) it breaks or b) someone pays me to get a new one