4 ms·

I really don't understand why a municipal law would dictate the organizational structure of a union (a private organization). If Uber drivers want to organize,

I really don't understand why a municipal law would dictate the organizational structure of a union (a private organization). If Uber drivers want to organize, why do they need the Seattle City Council to pass a law first allowing it?

mikeryan 10y ago
Independent contractors (the drivers) can join or create a "union" but they don't have the same privileges as a traditional (Full-Time employee) bargaining unit - most importantly a union of ICs have no collective bargaining rights. For example striking independent contractors are not protected under the National Labor Relations Act. My understanding is that this law is meant to bridge some of the gaps in the labor laws by the drivers being independent contractors.
ahh 10y ago
I don't know for certain with this law in particular, but typically the answer is that the description is a lie: they are not being granted permission from the council to organize. The council is banning Uber from hiring anyone not represented by the union (should they vote for it, but the fix is in, as noted by the carefully gerrymandered voting rules.) Anyone can organize at any time, and the employer is free to tell you to pound sand and hire someone else. Seattle's trying to change that. Expect rates to go up and availability to go down.
- mikeryan 10y ago
  Anyone can organize at any time, and the employer is free to tell you to pound sand and hire someone else This is not correct. Independent Contractors can organize but they have no right's covered by the National Labor Relations Act - which means they have little power or protections of a traditional union including collective bargaining rights. Organizing groups (who are covered by the NLRA) can not be fired by the employers for organizing.
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
    > Independent Contractors can organize but they have no right's covered by the National Labor Relations Act - which means they have little power or protections of a traditional union including collective bargaining rights. Well, they don't have the normal protections that employees have, either, because they're independent contractors and not employees. That has nothing to do with the NLRA or collective bargaining rights. Part of the point of independent contracting is that the relationship isn't an employment relationship, so the same rights aren't relevant. If you're saying that this is something that should be protected for Uber drivers, the real answer is that they should be classified as employees, not to blur the responsibilities of an independent contracting relationship.
    - pm24601 10y ago
      "Independent Contractors" -- is still debated. http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/21/11485424/uber-suit-california-Massachusetts-drivers-employee-contractor http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/21/11485424/uber-suit-califor...
- int_19h 10y ago
  > Anyone can organize at any time, and the employer is free to tell you to pound sand and hire someone else. The reason why governments have historically enacted laws that regulate unions and their interaction with employees - and this is not the first such law by a long shot - is because, even with collective bargaining, unions are often simply not powerful enough to meaningfully negotiate, and so the power imbalance remains.
  - ahh 10y ago
    I agree that unions don't work unless the government dictates that employers bow to their will. Whether that's good for companies or the public is a whole other question.
ianbicking 10y ago
In the article it was noted that Uber and Lyft are now required to give contact information to organizers.

mikeryan 10y ago

Independent contractors (the drivers) can join or create a "union" but they don't have the same privileges as a traditional (Full-Time employee) bargaining unit - most importantly a union of ICs have no collective bargaining rights. For example striking independent contractors are not protected under the National Labor Relations Act. My understanding is that this law is meant to bridge some of the gaps in the labor laws by the drivers being independent contractors.

ahh 10y ago

I don't know for certain with this law in particular, but typically the answer is that the description is a lie: they are not being granted permission from the council to organize. The council is banning Uber from hiring anyone not represented by the union (should they vote for it, but the fix is in, as noted by the carefully gerrymandered voting rules.) Anyone can organize at any time, and the employer is free to tell you to pound sand and hire someone else. Seattle's trying to change that. Expect rates to go up and availability to go down.

mikeryan 10y ago
Anyone can organize at any time, and the employer is free to tell you to pound sand and hire someone else This is not correct. Independent Contractors can organize but they have no right's covered by the National Labor Relations Act - which means they have little power or protections of a traditional union including collective bargaining rights. Organizing groups (who are covered by the NLRA) can not be fired by the employers for organizing.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > Independent Contractors can organize but they have no right's covered by the National Labor Relations Act - which means they have little power or protections of a traditional union including collective bargaining rights. Well, they don't have the normal protections that employees have, either, because they're independent contractors and not employees. That has nothing to do with the NLRA or collective bargaining rights. Part of the point of independent contracting is that the relationship isn't an employment relationship, so the same rights aren't relevant. If you're saying that this is something that should be protected for Uber drivers, the real answer is that they should be classified as employees, not to blur the responsibilities of an independent contracting relationship.
  - pm24601 10y ago
    "Independent Contractors" -- is still debated. http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/21/11485424/uber-suit-california-Massachusetts-drivers-employee-contractor http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/21/11485424/uber-suit-califor...
int_19h 10y ago
> Anyone can organize at any time, and the employer is free to tell you to pound sand and hire someone else. The reason why governments have historically enacted laws that regulate unions and their interaction with employees - and this is not the first such law by a long shot - is because, even with collective bargaining, unions are often simply not powerful enough to meaningfully negotiate, and so the power imbalance remains.
- ahh 10y ago
  I agree that unions don't work unless the government dictates that employers bow to their will. Whether that's good for companies or the public is a whole other question.

ianbicking 10y ago

In the article it was noted that Uber and Lyft are now required to give contact information to organizers.