4 ms·

I suspect the threat of a full-on nuke response to USSR or China, in all eventualities, was sensible ie don't even entertain the thought of any, even deniable o

by maxq 10y ago

I suspect the threat of a full-on nuke response to USSR or China, in all eventualities, was sensible ie don't even entertain the thought of any, even deniable or covert actions against us, although we all know we do it to you. Daily. Cuba wasn't a 'tiff'. Deploying Soviet nukes to Cuba was an attempt to subvert MAD, which would have made WWIII more likely. Not getting your Cheney thing. If he said it, was probably a joke. But I doubt it, since Iraq was an Ally at the time. Nuking Japan likely saved millions of US/UK/AUS/NZ/CAD etc lives, so I don't think you've worked through the numbers, curiously, despite your moralistic, high-brow typing.

ceejayoz 10y ago
> Not getting your Cheney thing. If he said it, was probably a joke. But I doubt it, since Iraq was an Ally at the time. "A decade before 9/11" was 1991, which saw the Persian Gulf War. The US and Iraq were most decidedly not allies then.
- maxq 10y ago
  Good catch - so, clearly it was a joke or an expression of cynical acceptance; nukes were never an option
  - quirkafleeg 10y ago
    Another joke about nuking another country? as defense secretary for the elder Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney commissioned a study of how many tactical nuclear weapons would be needed to take out an Iraqi Republican Guard division, if necessary. (The answer: 17.) http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/george-hw-bush-dick-cheney-drew-up-plans-to-nuke-iraq/414325/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/george-h...
- CalChris 10y ago
  > The US and Iraq were most decidedly not allies then. Actually, the US and Iraq were allies until Iraq invaded Kuwait. Ambassador April Glaspie. We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. The Iraqis even sent an Exocet missile into the USS Stark and other than bombing one of their oil platforms, Reagan turned the other cheek. Until after the Kuwait invasion and until after Thatcher lent H some of her testicles, yeah, Reagan and Bush were Iraqi allies. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Saddam_rumsfeld.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Saddam_r...
aoeuasdf1 10y ago
Nuking Japan could have been done like this: 1. Warn them we have nukes 2. Nuke off the coast of a major city so everyone can see what's going on 3. Demand their surrender. 4. Nuke a city if they don't surrender. Wait for them to surrender before continuing...
- wfunction 10y ago
  > 2. Nuke off the coast of a major city so everyone can see what's going on Uhm, that would still expose so many people to radiation. I'm not sure if there's any way it could've been done sanely.
- maxq 10y ago
  Or we could try: 1. Nuke city A 2. Demand unconditional surrender 3. Nuke city B ... Seems Imperial Japan was prepared to go to vol 11 on this, so I don't think your approach would have worked, unfortunately.
  - turar 10y ago
    What was the point of demanding unconditional surrender when Japan was ready to surrender before being nuked, if it kept the Emperor system?
    - qbrass 10y ago
      Even if leaving the emperor in power wasn't just going to lead to a new war in the future. Japan had four conditions for surrender. 1: The imperial government stays in power. 2: The imperial government handles disarmament and demobilizing the military. 3: No occupation of Japan or it's territories. 4: The imperial government handles trial and punishment of their war criminals.
  - unusximmortalis 10y ago
    It is one thing what you think you are prepared for and another what you really are prepared for when the real test begins.
  - 10y ago
quirkafleeg 10y ago
1. It wasn't a threat, it was an until recently classified standing order that the USSR and China would not even have known about. 2. And what were US nukes in Turkey? (You know, the ones the US removed because the Soviets put nukes in Cuba.) 3. Answered below. 4. The numbers you've carefully "worked through" there are simply an absurd exaggeration of a long discredited myth.

by maxq 10y ago

ceejayoz 10y ago

> Not getting your Cheney thing. If he said it, was probably a joke. But I doubt it, since Iraq was an Ally at the time. "A decade before 9/11" was 1991, which saw the Persian Gulf War. The US and Iraq were most decidedly not allies then.

maxq 10y ago
Good catch - so, clearly it was a joke or an expression of cynical acceptance; nukes were never an option
- quirkafleeg 10y ago
  Another joke about nuking another country? as defense secretary for the elder Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney commissioned a study of how many tactical nuclear weapons would be needed to take out an Iraqi Republican Guard division, if necessary. (The answer: 17.) http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/george-hw-bush-dick-cheney-drew-up-plans-to-nuke-iraq/414325/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/george-h...
CalChris 10y ago
> The US and Iraq were most decidedly not allies then. Actually, the US and Iraq were allies until Iraq invaded Kuwait. Ambassador April Glaspie. We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. The Iraqis even sent an Exocet missile into the USS Stark and other than bombing one of their oil platforms, Reagan turned the other cheek. Until after the Kuwait invasion and until after Thatcher lent H some of her testicles, yeah, Reagan and Bush were Iraqi allies. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Saddam_rumsfeld.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Saddam_r...

aoeuasdf1 10y ago

Nuking Japan could have been done like this: 1. Warn them we have nukes 2. Nuke off the coast of a major city so everyone can see what's going on 3. Demand their surrender. 4. Nuke a city if they don't surrender. Wait for them to surrender before continuing...

wfunction 10y ago
> 2. Nuke off the coast of a major city so everyone can see what's going on Uhm, that would still expose so many people to radiation. I'm not sure if there's any way it could've been done sanely.
maxq 10y ago
Or we could try: 1. Nuke city A 2. Demand unconditional surrender 3. Nuke city B ... Seems Imperial Japan was prepared to go to vol 11 on this, so I don't think your approach would have worked, unfortunately.
- turar 10y ago
  What was the point of demanding unconditional surrender when Japan was ready to surrender before being nuked, if it kept the Emperor system?
  - qbrass 10y ago
    Even if leaving the emperor in power wasn't just going to lead to a new war in the future. Japan had four conditions for surrender. 1: The imperial government stays in power. 2: The imperial government handles disarmament and demobilizing the military. 3: No occupation of Japan or it's territories. 4: The imperial government handles trial and punishment of their war criminals.
- unusximmortalis 10y ago
  It is one thing what you think you are prepared for and another what you really are prepared for when the real test begins.
- 10y ago

quirkafleeg 10y ago

1. It wasn't a threat, it was an until recently classified standing order that the USSR and China would not even have known about. 2. And what were US nukes in Turkey? (You know, the ones the US removed because the Soviets put nukes in Cuba.) 3. Answered below. 4. The numbers you've carefully "worked through" there are simply an absurd exaggeration of a long discredited myth.