4 ms·

"You don't understand, George, that Ukraine is not even a state. What is Ukraine? Part of its territories is Eastern Europe, but the greater part is a gift from

by Isinlor 10y ago

"You don't understand, George, that Ukraine is not even a state. What is Ukraine? Part of its territories is Eastern Europe, but the greater part is a gift from us." Said by Putin in 2008, Boekarest -> 2014, Crimea annexation and Ukraine in war. Polish president in 2008 was saying "Today Gorgia, tomorrow Ukraine, the day after Baltic States and then maybe even Poland". He died in Russia in airplane accident in 2010 when going for anniversary of the Katyn massacre, a mass murder of Polish intellectuals, politicians, and military officers by the Soviets during World War II. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre I'm from Poland and I can tell you that having USA military bases in Poland is a big win for every political force in my country. Left, right, liberal, socialists agree - we want to keep Russians as far as possible. Last Russian tanks left Poland in 1993 and I don't want to see them back. Not in my life time nor after I'm gone. I'm happy to go with Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, George W. Bush or whoever will be elected by the American nation, just to stay as far as possible from Russians. And it's not that we are that big fans of Americans, we just know the history way too well - we are affected by it till this day. If you want to see what happens when a person like Putin starts to say that the last peace agreements are bad and borders need to be changed then look at the second world war and the Polish history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement

shard972 10y ago
> If you want to see what happens when a person like Putin starts to say that the last peace agreements are bad and borders need to be changed then look at the second world war and the Polish history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement So is that a fear in Poland? That peace with russia would involve handing over parts of your country to Russia?
- ptaipale 10y ago
  More likely that a war with or annexation by Russia would begin by handing over parts of your country to Russia. Which is largely how World War II started in Europe: Stalin and Hitler agreed on a partition of the lands in between, and together started a war to implement that agreement, so that their armies could shake hands in the middle of Poland.
  - gspetr 10y ago
    Your understanding of WW2 is lacking. It wasn't 2 bad guys who wanted to split Europe. Britain and France were totally on board with Hitler at first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement "The agreement was signed in the early hours of 30 September 1938 (but dated 29 September) after being negotiated at a conference held in Munich, Germany, among the major powers of Europe, excluding the Soviet Union." The German-Soviet Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed in August 1939, almost a year later.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      I'm very well aware of that history, thank you. But the two guys with mustache were the ones actually going ahead with big time conquest in Europe. Sure, Chamberlain was wrong with that peace in our time and handing Bohemia to Hitler. But obviously he had difficulty in going to war over it, as well. And Arthur Harris would have hung as a war criminal if Britain had been on the losing side against Germany. But that's a different story. The two dictators and systems in their countries were the ones most responsible for bloodshed.
stefantalpalaru 10y ago
> Boekarest That would be "Bucharest" and the whole quote is actually a rumour published by Kommersant who cited a NATO delegation source. Not exactly reliable. > I'm from Poland and I can tell you that having USA military bases in Poland is a big win for every political force in my country. Left, right, liberal, socialists agree - we want to keep Russians as far as possible. Don't you realize that the US is looking for a conflict and a future proxy war may be waged in your country exactly because of those bases?

by Isinlor 10y ago

shard972 10y ago

> If you want to see what happens when a person like Putin starts to say that the last peace agreements are bad and borders need to be changed then look at the second world war and the Polish history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement So is that a fear in Poland? That peace with russia would involve handing over parts of your country to Russia?

ptaipale 10y ago
More likely that a war with or annexation by Russia would begin by handing over parts of your country to Russia. Which is largely how World War II started in Europe: Stalin and Hitler agreed on a partition of the lands in between, and together started a war to implement that agreement, so that their armies could shake hands in the middle of Poland.
- gspetr 10y ago
  Your understanding of WW2 is lacking. It wasn't 2 bad guys who wanted to split Europe. Britain and France were totally on board with Hitler at first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement "The agreement was signed in the early hours of 30 September 1938 (but dated 29 September) after being negotiated at a conference held in Munich, Germany, among the major powers of Europe, excluding the Soviet Union." The German-Soviet Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed in August 1939, almost a year later.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    I'm very well aware of that history, thank you. But the two guys with mustache were the ones actually going ahead with big time conquest in Europe. Sure, Chamberlain was wrong with that peace in our time and handing Bohemia to Hitler. But obviously he had difficulty in going to war over it, as well. And Arthur Harris would have hung as a war criminal if Britain had been on the losing side against Germany. But that's a different story. The two dictators and systems in their countries were the ones most responsible for bloodshed.

stefantalpalaru 10y ago

> Boekarest That would be "Bucharest" and the whole quote is actually a rumour published by Kommersant who cited a NATO delegation source. Not exactly reliable. > I'm from Poland and I can tell you that having USA military bases in Poland is a big win for every political force in my country. Left, right, liberal, socialists agree - we want to keep Russians as far as possible. Don't you realize that the US is looking for a conflict and a future proxy war may be waged in your country exactly because of those bases?