3 ms·

Evidence please? Particularly given that these issues happen to pretty much fall along the major cultural and political divide in the US. I suspect that the sa

Evidence please? Particularly given that these issues happen to pretty much fall along the major cultural and political divide in the US. I suspect that the same root causes of our political discord, are also the root causes of our lack of educational consensus.

specialist 10y ago
What measure of evidence do you require?
- Nomentatus 10y ago
  Start anywhere. For example, I know of sources detailing masses of money lost on educational innovations using private money, without result, but I don't think that helps your case. For example, on the other side, if one wanted to show evidence that schooling effects are just signalling anyway, one might start here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/10/04/links-1016-new-urleans/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/10/04/links-1016-new-urleans/ Your turn.
  - specialist 10y ago
    What portions of that link are relevant? All I see is a link dump. "Signaling"? As in virtue signaling? Is that your site? I approve of lesswrong, Brookings Institute, the Atlantic... And reviewing your comment history, I'm going to gamble on the hope that you're persuadable. You kinda "sound" like a libertarian, so you might enjoy this publication from criticalthinking.org: http://atom.curtin.edu.au/SAM_Ed%20Fadsopt.pdf http://atom.curtin.edu.au/SAM_Ed%20Fadsopt.pdf First hit when I google "fads in education". Result! The intro is better than I could have said it: "The history of education is also the history of educational panaceas, the comings and goings of quick fixes for deep-seated educational problems. This old problem is dramatically on the increase. The result is intensifying fragmentation of energy and effort in the schools, together with a significant waste of time and money. Many teachers become increasingly cynical and jaded. It is time to recognize that education will never be improved by educational fads, and that the manner in which educational trends are marketed guarantees that they will be transformed into fads. Fads by their nature are fated to self-destruction. Parents, educators, and citizen activists need to understand the problem of educational fads so that they can effectively distinguish substantive efforts at educational reform from superficial ones. Hence the motivation for this guide." It includes many fads I hadn't heard of. Its also about 10 years old, and it focuses on the classroom, so it doesn't include more recent nonsense like Common Core, Race to the Top, charter schools, most recent attempts of educational software, computers in the classroom, standardized testing, ranking teachers... Need I go on? --- What this paper, and many others, leave out is the role of procurement as the engine behind the fads. A lot of money is in play. The best public example I can think of is Dr Richard Feymann's anecdote about buying school books. I'm sure there's similar accounts for every failed fad, if I bothered to look. Especially all this standardized testing, which is the most efficient money extraction scheme cooked up to date. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-the-racket-with-standardized-test-scores/2013/04/01/1bbd61ea-9b01-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-the-... This is surprisingly well sourced: Standardized Testing: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6lyURyVz7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6lyURyVz7k --- Any way. I'm glad I did this. A trip down memory lane. My boss's boss was Dr John Goodlad. Here's his obit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/12/01/the-passing-of-a-giant-in-education/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/12/... Dr Goodlad was a great guy, he did great works. Practical, pragmatic, diplomatic, wicked smart, no bullshit. But education reform is like fighting a mob. Everyone's an expert; calm, rational people get shouted down or mowed over. Oh well. I have many friends who still work in education and reform. The fight goes on.
    - Nomentatus 10y ago
      Nope, not my site, just the fastest example from my previous notes on interesting education articles. Glad to have gotten some citations, I'll give 'em a look. School books, yup, much scamming there.

specialist 10y ago

What measure of evidence do you require?

Nomentatus 10y ago
Start anywhere. For example, I know of sources detailing masses of money lost on educational innovations using private money, without result, but I don't think that helps your case. For example, on the other side, if one wanted to show evidence that schooling effects are just signalling anyway, one might start here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/10/04/links-1016-new-urleans/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/10/04/links-1016-new-urleans/ Your turn.
- specialist 10y ago
  What portions of that link are relevant? All I see is a link dump. "Signaling"? As in virtue signaling? Is that your site? I approve of lesswrong, Brookings Institute, the Atlantic... And reviewing your comment history, I'm going to gamble on the hope that you're persuadable. You kinda "sound" like a libertarian, so you might enjoy this publication from criticalthinking.org: http://atom.curtin.edu.au/SAM_Ed%20Fadsopt.pdf http://atom.curtin.edu.au/SAM_Ed%20Fadsopt.pdf First hit when I google "fads in education". Result! The intro is better than I could have said it: "The history of education is also the history of educational panaceas, the comings and goings of quick fixes for deep-seated educational problems. This old problem is dramatically on the increase. The result is intensifying fragmentation of energy and effort in the schools, together with a significant waste of time and money. Many teachers become increasingly cynical and jaded. It is time to recognize that education will never be improved by educational fads, and that the manner in which educational trends are marketed guarantees that they will be transformed into fads. Fads by their nature are fated to self-destruction. Parents, educators, and citizen activists need to understand the problem of educational fads so that they can effectively distinguish substantive efforts at educational reform from superficial ones. Hence the motivation for this guide." It includes many fads I hadn't heard of. Its also about 10 years old, and it focuses on the classroom, so it doesn't include more recent nonsense like Common Core, Race to the Top, charter schools, most recent attempts of educational software, computers in the classroom, standardized testing, ranking teachers... Need I go on? --- What this paper, and many others, leave out is the role of procurement as the engine behind the fads. A lot of money is in play. The best public example I can think of is Dr Richard Feymann's anecdote about buying school books. I'm sure there's similar accounts for every failed fad, if I bothered to look. Especially all this standardized testing, which is the most efficient money extraction scheme cooked up to date. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-the-racket-with-standardized-test-scores/2013/04/01/1bbd61ea-9b01-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-the-... This is surprisingly well sourced: Standardized Testing: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6lyURyVz7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6lyURyVz7k --- Any way. I'm glad I did this. A trip down memory lane. My boss's boss was Dr John Goodlad. Here's his obit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/12/01/the-passing-of-a-giant-in-education/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/12/... Dr Goodlad was a great guy, he did great works. Practical, pragmatic, diplomatic, wicked smart, no bullshit. But education reform is like fighting a mob. Everyone's an expert; calm, rational people get shouted down or mowed over. Oh well. I have many friends who still work in education and reform. The fight goes on.
  - Nomentatus 10y ago
    Nope, not my site, just the fastest example from my previous notes on interesting education articles. Glad to have gotten some citations, I'll give 'em a look. School books, yup, much scamming there.