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Who exactly has proposed starting a war with Russia or anything remotely resembling that? Certainly not the incoming US president, who has been remarkably cons

by comex 10y ago

Who exactly has proposed starting a war with Russia or anything remotely resembling that? Certainly not the incoming US president, who has been remarkably consistent in praising Putin, currently denies the attribution of the hacks, and during the election was quoted encouraging Russia to do more hacking. Not that it matters, but even the hawks have not called for military action, at least in any way connected to the hacking; there may be some stuff related to Russia's aggression in Ukraine and intervention in Syria, but that's different. You're attacking a strawman.

imron 10y ago
Well, lets see, the Pentagon considers cyber attacks against critical US infrastructure (including the power grid) an act of war that can warrant a military response [0]. And now we have a major US newspaper publishing articles claiming (with the most tenuous of links) that Russia is hacking the US power grid. Not to mention a whole bunch of other dubious anti-Russia stories making the rounds based on flimsy 'evidence' that boils down to what another commenter posted the other day: "Russians drive trucks. Hackers used trucks. Therefore the hacks were clearly done by the Russians" It's not a straw man to say people calling for calm against Russia Hysteria are doing so because they don't want things to escalate to war with Russia. > Certainly not the incoming US president And so I find myself looking more and more forward to a Trump presidency. There are still 20 days to go however, so lets hope the media and the left can calm themselves down before then. 0: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-13614125 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-13614125
james-watson 10y ago
> Who exactly has proposed starting a war with Russia or anything remotely resembling that? The entire left establishment, from Hillary to Obama. Hillary wanted a no-fly zone in Syria. Obama just imposed a new round of sanctions on Russia, which is a precursor to war. The mental gymnastics are hitting Olympic levels with the left.
- astaroth360 10y ago
  If sanctions were a precursor to war, don't you think we'd already be in a war with Russia?
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Do you think sanctions are not a casus belli? This is economic warfare, Russia is effectively a land locked county without a warm water port, the US encircles it with troops, has strategic nuclear weapons on its door step and the only bordering region that the US does not directly control is another not especially friendly nuclear super power. People don't see the chess board and make Russia look like the villain; look at NATO in 1991 and look at it today if Canada would have joined the Warsaw Pact and if Russia was keeping enough nukes in Mexico to kill every living human in the continental United States where do you think we would be now? All what Russia sees is a military alliance pushed onto their border, a continuous presence of US nukes in Europe, the US never stopping it's strategic air command nuclear bomber flights and then criticizing Russia for resuming them, the EU and the US pushing to bypass Russia's pipelines in the Caspian Sea and the US deploying a missile shield in Europe that would nullify Russia's current strategic arsenal after unilaterally withdrawing from the anti-ABM treaty. And you say Russia is reckless and is a threat to world peace?
    - Intimatik 10y ago
      Russia is not a landlocked country as it has warm a water port which is in Sebastopol, Crimea
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        And to pass into the med they need to cross the bosforos which is controlled by NATO.
    - astaroth360 10y ago
      1) Where do we have nukes in Europe? 2) Russia invaded Georgia and stole Crimea, that's more hostile activity than anything we've done in response. 3) Russia has started making advanced missiles to bypass missile defense systems and will have them soon, so who really cares of the missile defense shield? 4) Russia is an autocratic nightmare state where Putin, a man rumored to have engineered the terrorist attacks that led to his quick rise to power, kills or exiles any opponents or critics. 5) Russia hacked the fucking DNC to make Trump win, which is an act of war. 6) NATO has never threatened Russia. If Russia is terrified of NATO, it is due to paranoia. 7) Russia isn't encircled by US troops. 8) It makes sense for the EU and US to avoid using Russia's pipelines when Russia is a morally reprehensible country the way it is being run right now.

by comex 10y ago

imron 10y ago

Well, lets see, the Pentagon considers cyber attacks against critical US infrastructure (including the power grid) an act of war that can warrant a military response [0]. And now we have a major US newspaper publishing articles claiming (with the most tenuous of links) that Russia is hacking the US power grid. Not to mention a whole bunch of other dubious anti-Russia stories making the rounds based on flimsy 'evidence' that boils down to what another commenter posted the other day: "Russians drive trucks. Hackers used trucks. Therefore the hacks were clearly done by the Russians" It's not a straw man to say people calling for calm against Russia Hysteria are doing so because they don't want things to escalate to war with Russia. > Certainly not the incoming US president And so I find myself looking more and more forward to a Trump presidency. There are still 20 days to go however, so lets hope the media and the left can calm themselves down before then. 0: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-13614125 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-13614125

james-watson 10y ago

> Who exactly has proposed starting a war with Russia or anything remotely resembling that? The entire left establishment, from Hillary to Obama. Hillary wanted a no-fly zone in Syria. Obama just imposed a new round of sanctions on Russia, which is a precursor to war. The mental gymnastics are hitting Olympic levels with the left.

astaroth360 10y ago
If sanctions were a precursor to war, don't you think we'd already be in a war with Russia?
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Do you think sanctions are not a casus belli? This is economic warfare, Russia is effectively a land locked county without a warm water port, the US encircles it with troops, has strategic nuclear weapons on its door step and the only bordering region that the US does not directly control is another not especially friendly nuclear super power. People don't see the chess board and make Russia look like the villain; look at NATO in 1991 and look at it today if Canada would have joined the Warsaw Pact and if Russia was keeping enough nukes in Mexico to kill every living human in the continental United States where do you think we would be now? All what Russia sees is a military alliance pushed onto their border, a continuous presence of US nukes in Europe, the US never stopping it's strategic air command nuclear bomber flights and then criticizing Russia for resuming them, the EU and the US pushing to bypass Russia's pipelines in the Caspian Sea and the US deploying a missile shield in Europe that would nullify Russia's current strategic arsenal after unilaterally withdrawing from the anti-ABM treaty. And you say Russia is reckless and is a threat to world peace?
  - Intimatik 10y ago
    Russia is not a landlocked country as it has warm a water port which is in Sebastopol, Crimea
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      And to pass into the med they need to cross the bosforos which is controlled by NATO.
  - astaroth360 10y ago
    1) Where do we have nukes in Europe? 2) Russia invaded Georgia and stole Crimea, that's more hostile activity than anything we've done in response. 3) Russia has started making advanced missiles to bypass missile defense systems and will have them soon, so who really cares of the missile defense shield? 4) Russia is an autocratic nightmare state where Putin, a man rumored to have engineered the terrorist attacks that led to his quick rise to power, kills or exiles any opponents or critics. 5) Russia hacked the fucking DNC to make Trump win, which is an act of war. 6) NATO has never threatened Russia. If Russia is terrified of NATO, it is due to paranoia. 7) Russia isn't encircled by US troops. 8) It makes sense for the EU and US to avoid using Russia's pipelines when Russia is a morally reprehensible country the way it is being run right now.