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> Note that there is no reason, in principle (at least that I'm aware of) that "formal logic" might not ultimately turn out to be an emergent aspect of a suffic

> Note that there is no reason, in principle (at least that I'm aware of) that "formal logic" might not ultimately turn out to be an emergent aspect of a sufficiently complex ANN. In principle, one reason against the ANN purist's approach for replicating human intelligence is that it ignores all the things our brains already have programmed from the moment we step into the world; we obviously aren't anything close to a blank slate. So I think there's a burden on advocates of pure ANN to explain why our core intelligence or "formal logic" is in fact independent of this pre-programming.

mindcrime 10y ago
So I think there's a burden on advocates of pure ANN to explain why our core intelligence or "formal logic" is in fact independent of this pre-programming. That's a fair question, and I take no position on it. My take on ANN's is that they are useful tools. I'm not particularly interested in the degree to which they accurately replicate how the human mind works. I assume, perhaps too quickly, that the analogy is pretty close, but I admit that I can't prove that. In either case, I still feel relatively confident that formal logic could emerge on top of a sufficiently complex ANN. One thing I don't know off hand, which would be interesting, is whether or not any specific research has bee done on proving or disproving that assertion.
- orthoganol 10y ago
  I'm not sure... if you discard appeal to the human brain metaphor/ authority, which was the purpose of my comment, why should one be confident that formal logic could emerge from an ANN? It seems like the entire argument about the potential of ANNs replicating human intelligence revolves around an appeal to the human brain, but I think it's an extremely fragile metaphor.
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    why should one be confident that formal logic could emerge from an ANN? It's closer to a gut feeling than anything. I believe if fairly strongly, but I haven't done any research in terms of trying to prove the point one way or the other. Don't read too much into it... it's just something I think. I may well be wrong.
eveningcoffee 10y ago
our brains already have programmed from the moment we step into the world; we obviously aren't anything close to a blank slate. I believe that this statement dismisses the fact that humans have plenty of time to train their brains before the birth based on multiple sensory inputs.
- orthoganol 10y ago
  Any research you could link for this? I get the impression from the 101 child development textbooks that infants display an impressive number of schemas and knowledge despite little, if none environmental exposure, but I'm not familiar with arguments linking these schemas and knowledge to exposure in the fetal stage.
  - eveningcoffee 10y ago
    Sorry for the late reply and sorry again as I do not have any exact references, but for example new born are able to recognise their parents voice. Babies are exposed to the environment to some degree (noise, gravity etc) and it would be very dismissive to ignore it.

mindcrime 10y ago

So I think there's a burden on advocates of pure ANN to explain why our core intelligence or "formal logic" is in fact independent of this pre-programming. That's a fair question, and I take no position on it. My take on ANN's is that they are useful tools. I'm not particularly interested in the degree to which they accurately replicate how the human mind works. I assume, perhaps too quickly, that the analogy is pretty close, but I admit that I can't prove that. In either case, I still feel relatively confident that formal logic could emerge on top of a sufficiently complex ANN. One thing I don't know off hand, which would be interesting, is whether or not any specific research has bee done on proving or disproving that assertion.

orthoganol 10y ago
I'm not sure... if you discard appeal to the human brain metaphor/ authority, which was the purpose of my comment, why should one be confident that formal logic could emerge from an ANN? It seems like the entire argument about the potential of ANNs replicating human intelligence revolves around an appeal to the human brain, but I think it's an extremely fragile metaphor.
- mindcrime 10y ago
  why should one be confident that formal logic could emerge from an ANN? It's closer to a gut feeling than anything. I believe if fairly strongly, but I haven't done any research in terms of trying to prove the point one way or the other. Don't read too much into it... it's just something I think. I may well be wrong.

eveningcoffee 10y ago

our brains already have programmed from the moment we step into the world; we obviously aren't anything close to a blank slate. I believe that this statement dismisses the fact that humans have plenty of time to train their brains before the birth based on multiple sensory inputs.

orthoganol 10y ago
Any research you could link for this? I get the impression from the 101 child development textbooks that infants display an impressive number of schemas and knowledge despite little, if none environmental exposure, but I'm not familiar with arguments linking these schemas and knowledge to exposure in the fetal stage.
- eveningcoffee 10y ago
  Sorry for the late reply and sorry again as I do not have any exact references, but for example new born are able to recognise their parents voice. Babies are exposed to the environment to some degree (noise, gravity etc) and it would be very dismissive to ignore it.