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> you have a very vauable asset for a tech career - a US Citizenship DAFUQ ? I am a French research in computer science, now working for a company producing an

> you have a very vauable asset for a tech career - a US Citizenship DAFUQ ? I am a French research in computer science, now working for a company producing and streaming contents on the web. I can assure you that my carrer opportunities — as sysadmin, researcher, or developper — are pretty good in France and in Europe :)

alexhakawy 10y ago
how you get a job like that lol
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
taway_1212 10y ago
I didn't say it's impossible, it's merely generally harder and for less money. Re: sysadmin and developer roles - my post was mostly about diversity and breadth of available roles. These sysadmin and developer roles are generic enough that one will be fine in them in Europe. A sufficiently specialized researcher, on the other hand, usually has only a handful of places in the entire world that are interested in hiring him within his specialty - a lot of which are in the US. I see this in a friend of mine. He's a young PhD Machine Learning Researcher with top credentials (Ivy League, top publications, won awards in his field). He wants to live in Europe due to family concerns, but he really can't find a position that would allow him use his talent, and is semi-wasting his time in random bad Data Science jobs for now - while he's getting numerous awesome offers from the US (like leading a research unit at Google or faculty positions in Ivy League schools).
- jfaucett 10y ago
  > it's merely generally harder and for less money. My experience has been the opposite in terms of difficulty. In most EU countries the market of software engineers who can also speak the native country's language is really small so its way easier to stand out from the crowd. In the US, you have to compete in a 350 million+ population pool plus global candidates who have studied English their whole lives. In any given EU country the candidate pool is a fraction the size and of those the one's who can communicate fluently in the native language is a fraction of that fraction.
  - taway_1212 10y ago
    You can't ignore the demand side of the equation though. US is leading economic and military (which leads to lots of tech as well) superpower and a lot of European countries are relatively backwater in comparison. For example, in the UK, there's little real tech companies and most developer roles are confined to non-tech support roles in other economy sectors (finance, retail etc.).
    - hacker_9 10y ago
      No? I've worked in plenty of software developer roles in the UK, not sure where this is coming from.
      - twic 10y ago
        What our disposable friend claimed was that there are few "real tech companies", not that there are few roles. There's some truth in that; there are lots of jobs working for banks, supermarkets, consultancies, publishers, etc, but relatively few in companies which are either pure-play tech (who is the British Microsoft or Dropbox?) or even consumer web (who is the British Facebook or Google?). That might or might not be a bad thing. It means you're more likely to be working for a real company, with a real business model, rather than some freak kept above by advertising and VC misallocation.
        kragniz 10y ago
        ARM is pretty well known
        taway_1212 10y ago
        Yeah that's literally the one that comes to my mind. Germany seems to have a strong robotics market (not only industrial, but also self-driving cars kind of stuff etc.) but most job posts I see are either straight in German or require a good command of it.
    - 10y ago
- deutchyboots 10y ago
  > I see this in a friend of mine. He's a young PhD Machine Learning Researcher with top credentials (Ivy League, top publications, won awards in his field). There are top-shelf jobs for your friend in Europe. E.g. Google's got large offices in London and Zurich and a quick search shows some possible fits for a PhD in ML. I know from friends that Amazon has a large office in Berlin focused on machine learning research and applications. Microsoft appears to be hiring ML scientists in München.

alexhakawy 10y ago

how you get a job like that lol

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

taway_1212 10y ago

I didn't say it's impossible, it's merely generally harder and for less money. Re: sysadmin and developer roles - my post was mostly about diversity and breadth of available roles. These sysadmin and developer roles are generic enough that one will be fine in them in Europe. A sufficiently specialized researcher, on the other hand, usually has only a handful of places in the entire world that are interested in hiring him within his specialty - a lot of which are in the US. I see this in a friend of mine. He's a young PhD Machine Learning Researcher with top credentials (Ivy League, top publications, won awards in his field). He wants to live in Europe due to family concerns, but he really can't find a position that would allow him use his talent, and is semi-wasting his time in random bad Data Science jobs for now - while he's getting numerous awesome offers from the US (like leading a research unit at Google or faculty positions in Ivy League schools).

jfaucett 10y ago
> it's merely generally harder and for less money. My experience has been the opposite in terms of difficulty. In most EU countries the market of software engineers who can also speak the native country's language is really small so its way easier to stand out from the crowd. In the US, you have to compete in a 350 million+ population pool plus global candidates who have studied English their whole lives. In any given EU country the candidate pool is a fraction the size and of those the one's who can communicate fluently in the native language is a fraction of that fraction.
- taway_1212 10y ago
  You can't ignore the demand side of the equation though. US is leading economic and military (which leads to lots of tech as well) superpower and a lot of European countries are relatively backwater in comparison. For example, in the UK, there's little real tech companies and most developer roles are confined to non-tech support roles in other economy sectors (finance, retail etc.).
  - hacker_9 10y ago
    No? I've worked in plenty of software developer roles in the UK, not sure where this is coming from.
    - twic 10y ago
      What our disposable friend claimed was that there are few "real tech companies", not that there are few roles. There's some truth in that; there are lots of jobs working for banks, supermarkets, consultancies, publishers, etc, but relatively few in companies which are either pure-play tech (who is the British Microsoft or Dropbox?) or even consumer web (who is the British Facebook or Google?). That might or might not be a bad thing. It means you're more likely to be working for a real company, with a real business model, rather than some freak kept above by advertising and VC misallocation.
      - kragniz 10y ago
        ARM is pretty well known
        taway_1212 10y ago
        Yeah that's literally the one that comes to my mind. Germany seems to have a strong robotics market (not only industrial, but also self-driving cars kind of stuff etc.) but most job posts I see are either straight in German or require a good command of it.
  - 10y ago
deutchyboots 10y ago
> I see this in a friend of mine. He's a young PhD Machine Learning Researcher with top credentials (Ivy League, top publications, won awards in his field). There are top-shelf jobs for your friend in Europe. E.g. Google's got large offices in London and Zurich and a quick search shows some possible fits for a PhD in ML. I know from friends that Amazon has a large office in Berlin focused on machine learning research and applications. Microsoft appears to be hiring ML scientists in München.