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If you are a programmer/designer you can get a 3 year freelance visa in Berlin, Germany. I currently live in Berlin with that visa. Your standard of living in

If you are a programmer/designer you can get a 3 year freelance visa in Berlin, Germany. I currently live in Berlin with that visa. Your standard of living in Europe will vary. Sure, some places offer free healthcare (not exactly free - see taxes), better public transportation, and decent quality food at lower tier supermarkets. That's all great. On the other hand, you'll likely take a huge hit in salary and pay higher taxes. That does make a difference in lifestyle. A personal anecdote: in NYC I paid $2500/month to live alone in a decent apartment in a vibrant area (East Village). That's a lot of money! In Berlin I paid $700/month for an apartment of similar quality, but because salary and taxes are so low, I wasn't able to save nearly as much as I did in NYC paying high rent, a lot of money for quality groceries, etc. There are other benefits of living in Europe like 30 days of vacation, ample maternal/paternal leave, and some financial security if you lose your job. That said, it's harder to get these jobs. Because of the risk companies need to take when hiring new employees (ie paying for all the benefits above), there's currently a huge workforce of temporary employees. Everyone is aiming for the seemingly elusive "permanent contract." I say make the move. You'll learn a lot about the world and yourself. You can always move back to the US. FYI this comes from the perspective of a software engineer turned entrepreneur turned software engineer. Berlin freelance visa: https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305249/en/ https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305249/en/

welder 10y ago
Good advice, but not having a degree or showing work experience might make it hard to get the freelancer visa. I would also recommend the "preparation for study visa" which gives you two years for taking German language courses and you can always change to the freelancer or work visa before the two years is up. [1] for the OP, without a degree you can still get the work visa if you're hired by a German company. > what's it like out there comparing to America? Main daily difference is you don't need a car. Find a job and go there. You need to experience it yourself to really know what it's like. 1. https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305156/en/ https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305156/en/
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
bogomipz 10y ago
Thanks for the insight. Could you share more about how you went about getting a freelance visa as a programmer. Most of the bullet points for Documents Required in you link actually say "not required for freelance" but then I see: "Proof of a secure livelihood must also include sufficient health insurance." Did you have to show a current consulting contract? Do you have to show that you are currently contracting for a company via invoices? If so does that consulting contract or invoices have to be from a German company or could it for a company in the US? Is it possible to contact you off list?
- johnomarkid 10y ago
  I don't want to go into how I got the visa, but I will say that most people get friends with German companies (even single person companies) to write contracts for them :) The contract simply has to state the project, date of future employment, and how much you will be paid upon completion. The contract can be for future dates. Does not need to be a project that is currently paying you. I had one German company and one US company. I think it's safer to have at least one German company. Sure thing, contact me if you need advice. I haven't been through the process in a couple of years but expats talk about it a lot.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    I totally understand. What's the best way to contact you? I didn't see an email in your profile. Thanks again. I really appreciate it.
bosie 10y ago
> I wasn't able to save nearly as much as I did in NYC Never having lived in the US, is the savings you are talking about in terms of percentage of your cost? i.e. if the only cost you have is rent and its 2800 vs 700, i would need to save at least 4 times as much to cover the difference.
- kobeya 10y ago
  Typically these are measured in absolute numbers. I'm not sure why you'd want to measure as relative ratios.
  - bosie 10y ago
    Because i need to be able to cover the costs (i.e. what is the savings in terms of purchasing power rather than absolute savings). If i lose my job tomorrow and my rent is 2800, I don't really care that i save 1k compared to 700 per month (under the assumption i can't increase the purchasing power of my savings somehow).
    - jupiter90000 10y ago
      One idea is that by investing a larger amount of money while living in an expensive area, later moving to a less expensive area (perhaps upon retirement, etc) will leave you with more assets to work with than if you had stayed working in the less expensive area the whole time (and investing a great deal less due to lower wages).
  - verbify 10y ago
    The ratio of savings:spending lets me know when I can retire early. Using exaggerated figures, if I earn 100k in the US, save 10k a year but I spend 90k, then it's going to take me longer to retire than if I earn 35k in Europe, spend 30k and save 5k. Because in the US, it'll take 9 years to save enough to live off one year, while in Europe it'll take six years to do the same. Of course you can move to a cheaper country when you retire, but you'll have to rebuild your friendships, adjust to the culture, etc.
mbrain 10y ago
Thanks a lot! I didn't know about this visa. FYI, You may have just changed my life.
- mlent 10y ago
  One thing not mentioned in this post is the minimum amount you need to have in the bank. I've heard people with as little as 3k, but technically Germany asks that you have 10k in the bank to prove that you are economically viable even between jobs. It's up to the discretion of the person at the Foreigner's Authority who decides on your application. It is much easier to obtain the freelancer visa after you've worked for a german company for some time. I know people who have been rejected from the freelancer visa for not having sufficient money in the bank. You can also just ask friends/family to loan you the money so you can take a screenshot of it to show to the person at the foreigners authority ;) Edit: Also, if you're really interested in moving to Berlin/Germany, I have a bunch of content about this on my blog (incl. the entire process end-to-end) you might find useful: http://notanomadblog.com/categories/work-abroad/ http://notanomadblog.com/categories/work-abroad/
onlyrealcuzzo 10y ago
Wouldn't it be smarter to just make use of his U.S. citizenship, contract for a Silicon Valley startup, make like $100k, and just travel in and out of the Eurozone whenever necessary to still be considered a tourist? Seems like he'd probably net around $2k a month after taxes doing that.
- johnomarkid 10y ago
  > If you spend three months in the Schengen area during any six-month period, you must wait another three months before you can apply to enter the Schengen area again without a visa. If you do not meet these conditions, or plan to stay in the Schengen area longer than three months, contact the embassy of the country where you plan to spend the majority of your time to apply for a visa. If you are fine with this then that's a good idea. But it's hard to really settle down knowing you need to leave in 3 months, and can't return again for another 3 months. I recommend getting a residence visa like the freelance visa. You can still consult for a US company after getting the visa. https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/go/schengen-fact-sheet.html https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/go/schengen-fa...
  - onlyrealcuzzo 10y ago
    Eek, I thought you only had to leave for UH day, not 3 months. Yeah, that would suck. That's for pointing that out.
  - kavbojka 10y ago
    Apply? When did this happen? I stayed in a Schengen country for almost a year and came in and out without having to apply for anything.
adolfoabegg 10y ago
This is a great summary, nice one! mbrain, move to Europe, you will love the lifestyle. Good luck!
winteriscoming 10y ago
>> If you are a programmer/designer you can get a 3 year freelance visa in Berlin, Germany. I currently live in Berlin with that visa. For someone like me who doesn't understand German language, is it possible to go on with the daily life interacting with the locals in English?
- Bombthecat 10y ago
  English is taught in every school in Germany. You should have it easy to get by.
- johnomarkid 10y ago
  I don't speak German. In Berlin it's not a big problem, particularly in certain neighborhoods where even waiters at restaurants may not speak German.
- Fnoord 10y ago
  In Berlin, sure. The elder may not be able to understand your English. Some rules of thumb: 1) The younger, the more likely to be able to speak English. 2) Rural area less likely to speak English (well) compared to big cities and tourist areas. 3) In IT/tech world in Germany you should have far less problems than say farmers. I'd say those count in general though :) if you go to Amsterdam people are much more likely to speak English than a local, small Dutch town foreigners generally haven't heard about. And, English is very practical in our globalised world. Make no mistake about German though; it is also a practical language in Europe.

welder 10y ago

Good advice, but not having a degree or showing work experience might make it hard to get the freelancer visa. I would also recommend the "preparation for study visa" which gives you two years for taking German language courses and you can always change to the freelancer or work visa before the two years is up. [1] for the OP, without a degree you can still get the work visa if you're hired by a German company. > what's it like out there comparing to America? Main daily difference is you don't need a car. Find a job and go there. You need to experience it yourself to really know what it's like. 1. https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305156/en/ https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305156/en/

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

bogomipz 10y ago

Thanks for the insight. Could you share more about how you went about getting a freelance visa as a programmer. Most of the bullet points for Documents Required in you link actually say "not required for freelance" but then I see: "Proof of a secure livelihood must also include sufficient health insurance." Did you have to show a current consulting contract? Do you have to show that you are currently contracting for a company via invoices? If so does that consulting contract or invoices have to be from a German company or could it for a company in the US? Is it possible to contact you off list?

johnomarkid 10y ago
I don't want to go into how I got the visa, but I will say that most people get friends with German companies (even single person companies) to write contracts for them :) The contract simply has to state the project, date of future employment, and how much you will be paid upon completion. The contract can be for future dates. Does not need to be a project that is currently paying you. I had one German company and one US company. I think it's safer to have at least one German company. Sure thing, contact me if you need advice. I haven't been through the process in a couple of years but expats talk about it a lot.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  I totally understand. What's the best way to contact you? I didn't see an email in your profile. Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

bosie 10y ago

> I wasn't able to save nearly as much as I did in NYC Never having lived in the US, is the savings you are talking about in terms of percentage of your cost? i.e. if the only cost you have is rent and its 2800 vs 700, i would need to save at least 4 times as much to cover the difference.

kobeya 10y ago
Typically these are measured in absolute numbers. I'm not sure why you'd want to measure as relative ratios.
- bosie 10y ago
  Because i need to be able to cover the costs (i.e. what is the savings in terms of purchasing power rather than absolute savings). If i lose my job tomorrow and my rent is 2800, I don't really care that i save 1k compared to 700 per month (under the assumption i can't increase the purchasing power of my savings somehow).
  - jupiter90000 10y ago
    One idea is that by investing a larger amount of money while living in an expensive area, later moving to a less expensive area (perhaps upon retirement, etc) will leave you with more assets to work with than if you had stayed working in the less expensive area the whole time (and investing a great deal less due to lower wages).
- verbify 10y ago
  The ratio of savings:spending lets me know when I can retire early. Using exaggerated figures, if I earn 100k in the US, save 10k a year but I spend 90k, then it's going to take me longer to retire than if I earn 35k in Europe, spend 30k and save 5k. Because in the US, it'll take 9 years to save enough to live off one year, while in Europe it'll take six years to do the same. Of course you can move to a cheaper country when you retire, but you'll have to rebuild your friendships, adjust to the culture, etc.

mbrain 10y ago

Thanks a lot! I didn't know about this visa. FYI, You may have just changed my life.

mlent 10y ago
One thing not mentioned in this post is the minimum amount you need to have in the bank. I've heard people with as little as 3k, but technically Germany asks that you have 10k in the bank to prove that you are economically viable even between jobs. It's up to the discretion of the person at the Foreigner's Authority who decides on your application. It is much easier to obtain the freelancer visa after you've worked for a german company for some time. I know people who have been rejected from the freelancer visa for not having sufficient money in the bank. You can also just ask friends/family to loan you the money so you can take a screenshot of it to show to the person at the foreigners authority ;) Edit: Also, if you're really interested in moving to Berlin/Germany, I have a bunch of content about this on my blog (incl. the entire process end-to-end) you might find useful: http://notanomadblog.com/categories/work-abroad/ http://notanomadblog.com/categories/work-abroad/

onlyrealcuzzo 10y ago

Wouldn't it be smarter to just make use of his U.S. citizenship, contract for a Silicon Valley startup, make like $100k, and just travel in and out of the Eurozone whenever necessary to still be considered a tourist? Seems like he'd probably net around $2k a month after taxes doing that.

johnomarkid 10y ago
> If you spend three months in the Schengen area during any six-month period, you must wait another three months before you can apply to enter the Schengen area again without a visa. If you do not meet these conditions, or plan to stay in the Schengen area longer than three months, contact the embassy of the country where you plan to spend the majority of your time to apply for a visa. If you are fine with this then that's a good idea. But it's hard to really settle down knowing you need to leave in 3 months, and can't return again for another 3 months. I recommend getting a residence visa like the freelance visa. You can still consult for a US company after getting the visa. https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/go/schengen-fact-sheet.html https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/go/schengen-fa...
- onlyrealcuzzo 10y ago
  Eek, I thought you only had to leave for UH day, not 3 months. Yeah, that would suck. That's for pointing that out.
- kavbojka 10y ago
  Apply? When did this happen? I stayed in a Schengen country for almost a year and came in and out without having to apply for anything.

adolfoabegg 10y ago

This is a great summary, nice one! mbrain, move to Europe, you will love the lifestyle. Good luck!

winteriscoming 10y ago

>> If you are a programmer/designer you can get a 3 year freelance visa in Berlin, Germany. I currently live in Berlin with that visa. For someone like me who doesn't understand German language, is it possible to go on with the daily life interacting with the locals in English?

Bombthecat 10y ago
English is taught in every school in Germany. You should have it easy to get by.
johnomarkid 10y ago
I don't speak German. In Berlin it's not a big problem, particularly in certain neighborhoods where even waiters at restaurants may not speak German.
Fnoord 10y ago
In Berlin, sure. The elder may not be able to understand your English. Some rules of thumb: 1) The younger, the more likely to be able to speak English. 2) Rural area less likely to speak English (well) compared to big cities and tourist areas. 3) In IT/tech world in Germany you should have far less problems than say farmers. I'd say those count in general though :) if you go to Amsterdam people are much more likely to speak English than a local, small Dutch town foreigners generally haven't heard about. And, English is very practical in our globalised world. Make no mistake about German though; it is also a practical language in Europe.