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1. Mindful meditation [free] John Kabat-Zinn [0] masters the link between science and meditation and has published very valuable books (including guided/audio

by benevol 10y ago

1. Mindful meditation [free] John Kabat-Zinn [0] masters the link between science and meditation and has published very valuable books (including guided/audio meditation exercises) [1]. There are a couple of scientific studies which prove effectiveness [2] [3]. 2. LSD [$5-10/dose + $25/multi-use test kit] Benefits (mid- and long-term) are similar to those of meditation. In addition, you may be able to access your spiritual dimension, which increases quality of life even further (it is less immediate with meditation). It however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it (minimum literature: "The psychedelic explorer's guide" by Fadiman). Also, order a test kit and test before you ingest. Certain "edge cases"/people should not try it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn [1] https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through_Depression_-_Guided_Meditation_Practices https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through... [2] http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better-brain/ http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to... [3] http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain-neuroscience http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain-neuros...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Fnoord 10y ago
> In addition, you may be able to access your spiritual dimension Spiritual dimension is just vague new age rhetoric. I don't want to be fear mongering but you may end up with a psychosis as well. Recommending random strangers to use recreational psychedelic drugs under the guise of getting "similar mid- and long-term effects to those of meditation" is flat out irresponsible. For those who are interested in using psychedelic drugs. First of all, never use a full dose the first time you use it. Second, get a sitter aka babysitter. That means someone who does not use any drugs (that means nothing in the sense that the sitter(s) need to stay awake during your drugs usage, and worst case the sitter(s) should still be able to drive you to the hospital if its needed). Consider to inform your doctor and discuss with them the alternatives. Instead of LSD and other psychedelic drugs I want to offer an alternative. If you want something akin to mindful meditation: do it more, or follow a 10 day Vipassana course. > Certain "edge cases"/people should not try it. This disclaimer is too vague. Some people don't know they are, or are young and will do it anyway because young people's brains (age < 25) are not yet fully grown up. If you're into mindful meditation and want to take it much further, follow a 10 day Vipassana course instead. You will get guidance from the people there, and if you really get over the edge during your 10 day course (you're likely to experience difficult times regardless), you'll at least not be under the influence of drugs and will be surrounded by specialists who are sober. Also, a mindfulness instructor (such a course might be worth paying for) has followed a 10 day Vipassana course as its part of the requirement to become one. Finally, I can highly recommend yoga together with meditation. (Without any spiritual BS, as that is unnecessary/distracting and excludes those with different religions including atheism. A good yoga or mindfulness instructor will include everyone, and avoid using such rhetoric.) TL;DR do mindfulness, yoga, Vipassana don't do psychedelic drugs.
- benevol 10y ago
  As I said: It however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it If you follow this, you will know if you belong to the category of people who should not use the substance to discover more of what we perceive as reality. It seems obvious to me that a comment on HN will never be able to fully cover the subject. I agree however 100% with your suggestion to add yoga.
  - Fnoord 10y ago
    >> It however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it > If you follow this, you will know if you belong to the category of people who should not use the substance to discover more of what we perceive as reality. It seems obvious to me that a comment on HN will never be able to fully cover the subject. Yes, I saw that disclaimer as well. Do you want me to address it? Your usage of "literally read/understand/know everything about the substance" fits CYA due to being extensively broad. Nobody in the world ever read/understand/know everything about any subject. Even those who maintain Erowid, studied psychology in university, or Albert Hofmann for that matter know everything about LSD. Those who know very little are arrogant about their knowledge whereas those who do know a lot are modest and acknowledge there's so much they do not know. It is also not how drug usage should work. If you get drugs prescribed from your MD you need to follow his directions as well as the directions from the drugs. You're basically under his supervision and guidance, he's partly responsible for your well being. The best you have as recreational user is your own knowledge (while your psyche is impacted by the drugs), and hopefully a knowledgeable, emotionally stable sitter. Please, don't recommend psychedelic drugs (or even drugs) to random strangers [1]. You may think they are intelligent and responsible, but many just aren't. Recommend it only to those people you know very well, and follow the advice I told you about not using full dose first time as well as sitter. The options of more mindfulness, yoga, and Vipassana 10 day course are much less dangerous. (Even those can be dangerous though which is why I follow yoga via an experienced yoga instructor who is finishing their physiology study, instead of following online free YouTube videos.) [1] And especially not while using a good introduction, with sources, about the benefits of mindfulness & meditation while not providing any for psychedelic drug usage while suggesting it as the next step of mindfulness & meditation.

by benevol 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Fnoord 10y ago

> In addition, you may be able to access your spiritual dimension Spiritual dimension is just vague new age rhetoric. I don't want to be fear mongering but you may end up with a psychosis as well. Recommending random strangers to use recreational psychedelic drugs under the guise of getting "similar mid- and long-term effects to those of meditation" is flat out irresponsible. For those who are interested in using psychedelic drugs. First of all, never use a full dose the first time you use it. Second, get a sitter aka babysitter. That means someone who does not use any drugs (that means nothing in the sense that the sitter(s) need to stay awake during your drugs usage, and worst case the sitter(s) should still be able to drive you to the hospital if its needed). Consider to inform your doctor and discuss with them the alternatives. Instead of LSD and other psychedelic drugs I want to offer an alternative. If you want something akin to mindful meditation: do it more, or follow a 10 day Vipassana course. > Certain "edge cases"/people should not try it. This disclaimer is too vague. Some people don't know they are, or are young and will do it anyway because young people's brains (age < 25) are not yet fully grown up. If you're into mindful meditation and want to take it much further, follow a 10 day Vipassana course instead. You will get guidance from the people there, and if you really get over the edge during your 10 day course (you're likely to experience difficult times regardless), you'll at least not be under the influence of drugs and will be surrounded by specialists who are sober. Also, a mindfulness instructor (such a course might be worth paying for) has followed a 10 day Vipassana course as its part of the requirement to become one. Finally, I can highly recommend yoga together with meditation. (Without any spiritual BS, as that is unnecessary/distracting and excludes those with different religions including atheism. A good yoga or mindfulness instructor will include everyone, and avoid using such rhetoric.) TL;DR do mindfulness, yoga, Vipassana don't do psychedelic drugs.

benevol 10y ago
As I said: It however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it If you follow this, you will know if you belong to the category of people who should not use the substance to discover more of what we perceive as reality. It seems obvious to me that a comment on HN will never be able to fully cover the subject. I agree however 100% with your suggestion to add yoga.
- Fnoord 10y ago
  >> It however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it > If you follow this, you will know if you belong to the category of people who should not use the substance to discover more of what we perceive as reality. It seems obvious to me that a comment on HN will never be able to fully cover the subject. Yes, I saw that disclaimer as well. Do you want me to address it? Your usage of "literally read/understand/know everything about the substance" fits CYA due to being extensively broad. Nobody in the world ever read/understand/know everything about any subject. Even those who maintain Erowid, studied psychology in university, or Albert Hofmann for that matter know everything about LSD. Those who know very little are arrogant about their knowledge whereas those who do know a lot are modest and acknowledge there's so much they do not know. It is also not how drug usage should work. If you get drugs prescribed from your MD you need to follow his directions as well as the directions from the drugs. You're basically under his supervision and guidance, he's partly responsible for your well being. The best you have as recreational user is your own knowledge (while your psyche is impacted by the drugs), and hopefully a knowledgeable, emotionally stable sitter. Please, don't recommend psychedelic drugs (or even drugs) to random strangers [1]. You may think they are intelligent and responsible, but many just aren't. Recommend it only to those people you know very well, and follow the advice I told you about not using full dose first time as well as sitter. The options of more mindfulness, yoga, and Vipassana 10 day course are much less dangerous. (Even those can be dangerous though which is why I follow yoga via an experienced yoga instructor who is finishing their physiology study, instead of following online free YouTube videos.) [1] And especially not while using a good introduction, with sources, about the benefits of mindfulness & meditation while not providing any for psychedelic drug usage while suggesting it as the next step of mindfulness & meditation.