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I think though that if an equivalent study found opposite results and the BBC wrote "Men write better code", there would be even far greatee uproar at how delib

• Latty 10y ago
  I never said that the BBC was right with what they posted - clearly it has issues. My issue is that they examine this one case in isolation in a way that is clearly meant to be misleading. I am not 'inventing an enemy' - please go look at the other posts on that site - there is a continual drip of articles about feminism, making feminists out to be crazy and aggressive, all of them highly misleading. This is just another example. Instead of 'oh look, another story where a journalist finds a bit of research and publishes with a massively overstated headline' it's 'those feminists are at it again, trying to trick us!'. They could have picked out a ton of these stories, or focused on the issue of research in general, but instead they pick this one because it suits their message. You can ignore the context completely, but it's clear what this is in context. If a paper constantly put on giant pictures of convicted black people (and only black people) on the front page with gory descriptions of what they did, we would call that out, because while technically true, it's clearly misleading. Likewise, this site constantly pumping out articles that imply that feminists are some kind of boogeyman out to get you is attempting to push an agenda, and that context matters when judging this article. I'm not saying "it's not that bad" - it's a real issue. I'm saying that it's not as bad as the article portrays, because it portrays it without the wider context that this happens all the time with all sorts of research. Fake news is a term I hate because it's so easy to throw around. I don't really like it being used by any 'side', because it doesn't help. Just as with the 'fake news' itself, calls of 'fake news' just get brushed off with "mine can't possibly be, I trust this source". The solution, as always, should be making the damn point about why it's wrong. Yes, getting people to listen is a problem, but falling back on screaming a catch-phrase doesn't seem like it'll help more.
  • Chris2048 10y ago
    > while technically true, it's clearly misleading What's misleading here? Are you saying there are as many poor articles that are "anti-feminist" than "pro-feminist"? I'd argue that a publication like the BBC would be a lot more careful about offending feminists, but I admit this is speculative. Now here's the thing - the feminist concept of "patriarchy" is literally the demon-haunted world of enemies (wrt men/non-allies) that you are claiming this article invokes (wrt feminists). "constantly pumping out articles that imply that feminists are some kind of boogeyman" - Do you apply the same criteria of critique to various feminist blogs and publications (e.g jezebel)? Because I'd like to hear the difference. In fact, I hear "What about the menz!1!" is offensive now - isn't that exactly "the wider context" you feel is missing here?
    • Latty 10y ago
      What is misleading is the framing of this being purely about the quality of the story and 'fake news', when in reality it's cherry picking this article to try and decry feminism. > Now here's the thing - the feminist concept of "patriarchy" is literally the demon-haunted world of enemies (wrt men/non-allies) that you are claiming this article invokes (wrt feminists). No, it's not, because we know there is a real cultural hangover from a time when women were fundamentally treated as lesser than men. That's not exactly news, we know that's the case, just as we know that minorities still suffer from a time we had racism built into our laws and culture. There are real problems there. > Do you apply the same criteria of critique to various feminist blogs and publications (e.g jezebel)? Because I'd like to hear the difference. Yes, and I'm sure there are a few crazies out there who truly hate men, or want crazy shit that doesn't make sense - but they are few and far between, and don't represent mainstream feminism. This site is clearly attempting to paint normal, mainstream feminism as that crazy kind to get people to reject it. > In fact, I hear "What about the menz!1!" is offensive now - isn't that exactly "the wider context" you feel is missing here? It's not - the issue is that a much higher percentage of the people who "want to talk about men's issues" are using it as an excuse to try and stop talking about women's issues. I have absolutely no problem with talking about men's issues - they are real, are a problem, and affect me personally, as I'm a man. That said, whenever feminists bring up issues, you get the counter cry of "what about men", which sounds reasonable in the way that the "all lives matter" counter does - sure, we care about gender equality, not just women. The issue is that there are more issues that more deeply affect just women, like there are for minorities in the race issue. The people claiming they want to shift the focus to "everyone" are often just trying to deny that we need to focus on these issues of great injustices. Yes, it's hard, because some of the people saying "I care about men's rights" have no intention of doing so to 'counter' feminism, but it's hard to tell and you get kneejerk responses on both sides. It's unfortunate that the "MRA" label has been most heavily used and is associated with misogynists, not people who actually care about the issue without other agendas. Yes, there are unreasonable people on all sides of this, as with pretty much everything. However, the reality is that discrimination and disadvantage is still more widespread for women in our culture, and working to fix that is going to require more effort. This site is clearly trying to push the idea that isn't the case, and that mainstream feminism is instead trying to disadvantage and discriminate against men - an accusation that simply doesn't reflect reality. Just as the average white person is being barraged with the idea that the rights of minorities come at their expense, now sites like this are barraging men with the idea that the rights of women come at their expense. That is a lie designed to pit people against each other, and make us willing to reject the causes fighting for us all to get our basic rights.