4 ms·

Iraq had WMD and used it frequently, like other countries in the region.

by lisivka 10y ago

armenarmen 10y ago
well, we never found them.
- grzm 10y ago
  I think what may be confusing the issue is at what time we're talking about. Given the broad strokes being argued in this thread, it makes it difficult to have a constructive discussion. There are documented cases of Iraq using chemical weapons while under Saddam's rule. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack For more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program Following the 1990 Gulf War, there was a concerted international effort to eliminate Iraq's WMD capabilities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis By 2003, when the coalition invaded Iraq, for all intents and purposes Iraq no longer had WMDs, as reported by the Iraq Survey Group.
  - glasz 10y ago
    concerning halabja let me quote my fellow countryman: Dieter Backfisch, managing director of West German company Karl Kolb GmbH, was quoted by saying in 1989 that "for people in Germany poison gas is something quite terrible, but this does not worry customers abroad." i hate all this being discussed and referenced in a one-sided way. as if saddam or putin or others are the only evil. background on how the west delivers all the groundwork which they then condemn: https://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html https://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html
    - grzm 10y ago
      I agree that it can be difficult to figure out where to limit the scope. On the other hand, figuring out a place to start where you can agree is important, otherwise people are left talking past each other. Trying to clarify a few points being discussed does not mean everything else not mentioned is being ignored or assumed to be justified.
    - lisivka 10y ago
      USA and Germany are different countries, not a single "West" country. They were at war not a far time ago. Germany delivered equipment to produce WMD, USA tried to stop that.
- lisivka 10y ago
  I saw that film too. It's not hard to hide few cubic meters of bombs and shells well in the country. Or just sell it over border, to Syria. http://www.wnd.com/2004/06/25309/ http://www.wnd.com/2004/06/25309/ http://www.jerusalemprayerteam.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/wmd.pdf http://www.jerusalemprayerteam.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/wm...
  - woofyman 10y ago
    World Net Daily is a far right propaganda site. Edit: They're also Christianists who believe we're living in the end times.
    - lisivka 10y ago
      OK, so I added other source. You can find more sources yourself. My impression, after all these years, that Saddam stopped production of new batches of mustard gas and sarin, and switched to develop new, advanced versions of CW, which are hard to detect, so they are easy to hide from inspectors and transport across. Maybe, few hundred tons of binary CW are hidden in the desert, but real threat was that new type of CW. Imagine few hundreds of drones, each with highly lethal chemical bomb. Cheap drones has very limited range, but if a terrorist will be able to import components of CW legally, and then assemble a bomb with them, then drones will becomes WMD.
      - woofyman 10y ago
        The second link is also from World Net Daily.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        lisivka 10y ago
        Former Top Military of Iraq: SADA: Well, I want to make it clear, very clear to everybody in the world that we had the weapon of mass destruction in Iraq, and the regime used them against our Iraqi people. It was used against Kurds in the north, against Arabs — marsh Arabs in the south... SADA: Well, up to the year 2002, 2002, in summer, they were in Iraq. And after that, when Saddam realized that the inspectors are coming on the first of November and the Americans are coming, so he took the advantage of a natural disaster happened in Syria, a dam was broken. So he — he announced to the world that he is going to make an air bridge... http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/26/exclusive-former-top-military-aide-to-saddam-reveals-dictator-secret-plans.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/26/exclusive-former-top... Other sources: http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/syria-chemical-weapons-came-from-iraq/ http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/syria-chemical-... http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/the-unresolved-mystery-of-syrias-iraqi-chemical-weapons/ http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/the-unresolve... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/1452551/Saddams-WMD-hidden-in-Syria-says-Iraq-survey-chief.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/1...
Zigurd 10y ago
None were found, and the OP's reference to a diplomat's daughter faking testimony is, in fact, real and it did help precipitate a war. All that said, it has no bearing on the Russian hacking case, which should be viewed in the context of a certainty about Russian hacking capabilities, and of a long history of Putin undermining transatlantic and european unity with all the tools of asymmetric conflict.
- glasz 10y ago
  it has much bearing because it demonstrates historical precedent. show us _real_ evidence. what specific code was planted by whom exactly and when and how? can you _be sure_ it was person 1? are you sure person 2 didn't impersonate person 1?
grzm 10y ago
Your parent is very likely referring to the US and UK assertions of Iraqi WMDs to justify the 2003 coalition invasion of Iraq. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War#Weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War#Wea... Granted, your parent doesn't explicitly state this, but this is generally what's meant when this theme is referred to. Are you referring to the same time or prior to Iraq WMD disarmament? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis
- lisivka 10y ago
  I'm referring to same time. There is multiple evidences that Iraq had WMD in 2002, and that they are moved to Syria. http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/26/exclusive-former-top-military-aide-to-saddam-reveals-dictator-secret-plans.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/26/exclusive-former-top...
  - grzm 10y ago
    Thanks for clarifying.

Iraq had WMD and used it frequently, like other countries in the region.

by lisivka 10y ago

Iraq had WMD and used it frequently, like other countries in the region.

armenarmen 10y ago

well, we never found them.

grzm 10y ago
I think what may be confusing the issue is at what time we're talking about. Given the broad strokes being argued in this thread, it makes it difficult to have a constructive discussion. There are documented cases of Iraq using chemical weapons while under Saddam's rule. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack For more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program Following the 1990 Gulf War, there was a concerted international effort to eliminate Iraq's WMD capabilities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis By 2003, when the coalition invaded Iraq, for all intents and purposes Iraq no longer had WMDs, as reported by the Iraq Survey Group.
- glasz 10y ago
  concerning halabja let me quote my fellow countryman: Dieter Backfisch, managing director of West German company Karl Kolb GmbH, was quoted by saying in 1989 that "for people in Germany poison gas is something quite terrible, but this does not worry customers abroad." i hate all this being discussed and referenced in a one-sided way. as if saddam or putin or others are the only evil. background on how the west delivers all the groundwork which they then condemn: https://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html https://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html
  - grzm 10y ago
    I agree that it can be difficult to figure out where to limit the scope. On the other hand, figuring out a place to start where you can agree is important, otherwise people are left talking past each other. Trying to clarify a few points being discussed does not mean everything else not mentioned is being ignored or assumed to be justified.
  - lisivka 10y ago
    USA and Germany are different countries, not a single "West" country. They were at war not a far time ago. Germany delivered equipment to produce WMD, USA tried to stop that.
lisivka 10y ago
I saw that film too. It's not hard to hide few cubic meters of bombs and shells well in the country. Or just sell it over border, to Syria. http://www.wnd.com/2004/06/25309/ http://www.wnd.com/2004/06/25309/ http://www.jerusalemprayerteam.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/wmd.pdf http://www.jerusalemprayerteam.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/wm...
- woofyman 10y ago
  World Net Daily is a far right propaganda site. Edit: They're also Christianists who believe we're living in the end times.
  - lisivka 10y ago
    OK, so I added other source. You can find more sources yourself. My impression, after all these years, that Saddam stopped production of new batches of mustard gas and sarin, and switched to develop new, advanced versions of CW, which are hard to detect, so they are easy to hide from inspectors and transport across. Maybe, few hundred tons of binary CW are hidden in the desert, but real threat was that new type of CW. Imagine few hundreds of drones, each with highly lethal chemical bomb. Cheap drones has very limited range, but if a terrorist will be able to import components of CW legally, and then assemble a bomb with them, then drones will becomes WMD.
    - woofyman 10y ago
      The second link is also from World Net Daily.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - lisivka 10y ago
        Former Top Military of Iraq: SADA: Well, I want to make it clear, very clear to everybody in the world that we had the weapon of mass destruction in Iraq, and the regime used them against our Iraqi people. It was used against Kurds in the north, against Arabs — marsh Arabs in the south... SADA: Well, up to the year 2002, 2002, in summer, they were in Iraq. And after that, when Saddam realized that the inspectors are coming on the first of November and the Americans are coming, so he took the advantage of a natural disaster happened in Syria, a dam was broken. So he — he announced to the world that he is going to make an air bridge... http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/26/exclusive-former-top-military-aide-to-saddam-reveals-dictator-secret-plans.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/26/exclusive-former-top... Other sources: http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/syria-chemical-weapons-came-from-iraq/ http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/syria-chemical-... http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/the-unresolved-mystery-of-syrias-iraqi-chemical-weapons/ http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/the-unresolve... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/1452551/Saddams-WMD-hidden-in-Syria-says-Iraq-survey-chief.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/1...

Zigurd 10y ago

None were found, and the OP's reference to a diplomat's daughter faking testimony is, in fact, real and it did help precipitate a war. All that said, it has no bearing on the Russian hacking case, which should be viewed in the context of a certainty about Russian hacking capabilities, and of a long history of Putin undermining transatlantic and european unity with all the tools of asymmetric conflict.

glasz 10y ago
it has much bearing because it demonstrates historical precedent. show us _real_ evidence. what specific code was planted by whom exactly and when and how? can you _be sure_ it was person 1? are you sure person 2 didn't impersonate person 1?

grzm 10y ago

Your parent is very likely referring to the US and UK assertions of Iraqi WMDs to justify the 2003 coalition invasion of Iraq. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War#Weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War#Wea... Granted, your parent doesn't explicitly state this, but this is generally what's meant when this theme is referred to. Are you referring to the same time or prior to Iraq WMD disarmament? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis

lisivka 10y ago
I'm referring to same time. There is multiple evidences that Iraq had WMD in 2002, and that they are moved to Syria. http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/26/exclusive-former-top-military-aide-to-saddam-reveals-dictator-secret-plans.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/01/26/exclusive-former-top...
- grzm 10y ago
  Thanks for clarifying.