5 ms·

I always wondered- why is the ivory market not flooded with fakes? Everything is faked in china, this is a valuable good- is there no way to synthesize dentin f

I always wondered- why is the ivory market not flooded with fakes? Everything is faked in china, this is a valuable good- is there no way to synthesize dentin flood the poachers out of the buisness?

pm90 10y ago
There probably is but the market for ivory is for ornamental/medicinal practices, which require "real" ivory.
mustacheemperor 10y ago
This has been considered before, but there's a significant risk that it would only drive up the value of "genuine" ivory. It could also make it harder to discredit the beliefs about ivory having special medicinal/magical properties, since people could rationalize "well it only works with REAL ivory."
matthewmarkus 10y ago
For ivory, you would essentially have to grow a tooth in vitro for less than $1500, retail. Technologically, we're not there yet.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Can you prove that ivory is ivory? Why not ceramic or plastic or something that feels like ivory but isn't?
  - yyhhsj0521 10y ago
    A simple method would be to burn it. If it smells like when you burn fingernail, it probably is ivory.
    - truth_sentinell 10y ago
      Have you ever burned a fingernail?
  - matthewmarkus 10y ago
    Burn tests, as yyhhsj0521 points out, are done. If the object is made of keratin, it will smell like burning hair. I've never burned ivory, but I imagine it would also give off a unique smell (e.g., think drilling in a dentist office). Of course, as biotech advances, DNA tests and the like will be cheap and prevelant, and those will be used to establish authenticity. There have been some substitutes developed for ivory, but they're readily identifiable. These substitutes include the tagua nut [1] and nitrocellulose plastic [2]. [1] http://animals.oreilly.com/the-other-ivory/ http://animals.oreilly.com/the-other-ivory/ [2] http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-earliest-plastic-billiard-balls-had-a-habit-of-expl-1705491374 http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-earliest-plastic-billiard-balls-h...
DanBC 10y ago
One source of fake ivory is mammoth tusk, which isn't under the same bans. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/04/125-mammoth-tusks/larmer-text http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/04/125-mammoth-tusks/...
giarc 10y ago
There is a startup trying to do just that... bioengineer rhino horns, tusks etc. http://signup.pembient.com/ http://signup.pembient.com/
- matthewmarkus 10y ago
  Thanks for the mention! We're mainly focused on horn at present, but I do mention ivory here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13288580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13288580

I always wondered- why is the ivory market not flooded with fakes? Everything is faked in china, this is a valuable good- is there no way to synthesize dentin flood the poachers out of the buisness?

pm90 10y ago

There probably is but the market for ivory is for ornamental/medicinal practices, which require "real" ivory.

mustacheemperor 10y ago

This has been considered before, but there's a significant risk that it would only drive up the value of "genuine" ivory. It could also make it harder to discredit the beliefs about ivory having special medicinal/magical properties, since people could rationalize "well it only works with REAL ivory."

matthewmarkus 10y ago

For ivory, you would essentially have to grow a tooth in vitro for less than $1500, retail. Technologically, we're not there yet.

freehunter 10y ago
Can you prove that ivory is ivory? Why not ceramic or plastic or something that feels like ivory but isn't?
- yyhhsj0521 10y ago
  A simple method would be to burn it. If it smells like when you burn fingernail, it probably is ivory.
  - truth_sentinell 10y ago
    Have you ever burned a fingernail?
- matthewmarkus 10y ago
  Burn tests, as yyhhsj0521 points out, are done. If the object is made of keratin, it will smell like burning hair. I've never burned ivory, but I imagine it would also give off a unique smell (e.g., think drilling in a dentist office). Of course, as biotech advances, DNA tests and the like will be cheap and prevelant, and those will be used to establish authenticity. There have been some substitutes developed for ivory, but they're readily identifiable. These substitutes include the tagua nut [1] and nitrocellulose plastic [2]. [1] http://animals.oreilly.com/the-other-ivory/ http://animals.oreilly.com/the-other-ivory/ [2] http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-earliest-plastic-billiard-balls-had-a-habit-of-expl-1705491374 http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-earliest-plastic-billiard-balls-h...

DanBC 10y ago

One source of fake ivory is mammoth tusk, which isn't under the same bans. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/04/125-mammoth-tusks/larmer-text http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/04/125-mammoth-tusks/...

giarc 10y ago

There is a startup trying to do just that... bioengineer rhino horns, tusks etc. http://signup.pembient.com/ http://signup.pembient.com/

matthewmarkus 10y ago
Thanks for the mention! We're mainly focused on horn at present, but I do mention ivory here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13288580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13288580