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I have been working on a flying car project for years and can guarantee you that one/two seat Electrical VTOL is at least 30 years away, battery density must tr

by elmar 10y ago

I have been working on a flying car project for years and can guarantee you that one/two seat Electrical VTOL is at least 30 years away, battery density must triple and then you have regulations. Current solutions can be airborne at maximum 15 minutes considering that FAA and other agencies require 20 minutes reserve you do the math. The Zee.aero patent design as been abandoned because they couldn't scale it to fit a passenger inside.

elmar 10y ago
as a sidenote contrary to the rest of the world there is no regulation in the USA for a electrical LSA Ligh Sport Aircraft because it can only be powered by internal combustion engine the FAA is taking more than a decade to add two words to the regulation "and Electrical" imagine how much will take to develop a completely new regulation for electrical VTOL.
avn2109 10y ago
If by "flying car" Larry really means "Toyota Camry that can fly with middle class people inside" then that's obviously preposterous to anyone with the slightest shred of general aviation experience. If he means "VTOL Cessna with really good avionics" it's still a tall order but perhaps within the realm of "eventually possible given great determination and unlimited money" instead of "laugh him out of town."
- elmar 10y ago
  off course it will be possible when batteries tripple the density without increasing weight. You will get a 25 minute around 30 miles ride with 20 minute reserve
  - lisper 10y ago
    And without being a fire hazard.
    - elmar 10y ago
      with current battery technology this is controlled but with new tech chemistry this could become a problem.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Biofuels. Otherwise, you're waiting another 20 years.
    - elmar 10y ago
      to do a small combustion engine VTOL vehicle its even harder I have only seen it work with several two stroke engines. Another optin is turbine like the AirMule, but will be hard to use it for civilian operations the hourly cost is brutal and noise and heat is really annoying for nearby people and even passengers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Aeronautics_AirMule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Aeronautics_AirMule
      - elmar 10y ago
        the two stroke VTOL is homebuilt http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123200/The-ultimate-man-cave-Stunning-aircraft-hangar-middle-Utah-desert-plane-designer-lives-plane--guns.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123200/The-ultimate...
- elmar 10y ago
  the cost it's also another big barrier I don't see it hitting the market at less than $250k. As a proxy you have Icon A5 it was target at a price point of $130k in 2008 currently it's priced around $240k and only a handful have been delivered. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICON_A5 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICON_A5
natosaichek 10y ago
what about the joby s2? Is that also impossible? It looks feasible and there are a bunch of people working on it... Thoughts?
- elmar 10y ago
  similiar glider designs to Joby S2 get 1h to 1h30 flight time with current battery density, it all depends how much energy is spent doing the vertical takeoff and landing.
- elmar 10y ago
  For electrical VTOL the Joby is probably the best bet, one big question mark is, the 16 motors how much will weight even at a very low weight of 15kg each you get 240kg/52lb in motors a similar complete two person glider weights around 300kg/661lb.
  - londons_explore 10y ago
    Motors will be more like 1kg each. One can get a 10 kilowatt 1 kg air cooled motor. Batteries are the heavy bit, and in my opinion, the future there is to have batteries capable of 2 minutes of flying, and a gasoline engine as a hybrid generator.
    - elmar 10y ago
      don't know if you ou will manage lift with 160kw will depend on overall weight, you also have to factor the weight of the propeller and rotating mechanism and covers so 10 to 15 kg is not exaggerated.
yeppers123 10y ago
Eh, it's not that far away if we really wanted to push it. Just add an airfoil envelope with enough of something lighter than air(heated air, helium, w/e) to offset the weight until a decent performance point is met. The heat from the engines running could help heat the gas for added efficiency. Hybrid airships are already being marketed by Lockheed Martin so this isn't revolutionary at all.

by elmar 10y ago

elmar 10y ago

as a sidenote contrary to the rest of the world there is no regulation in the USA for a electrical LSA Ligh Sport Aircraft because it can only be powered by internal combustion engine the FAA is taking more than a decade to add two words to the regulation "and Electrical" imagine how much will take to develop a completely new regulation for electrical VTOL.

avn2109 10y ago

If by "flying car" Larry really means "Toyota Camry that can fly with middle class people inside" then that's obviously preposterous to anyone with the slightest shred of general aviation experience. If he means "VTOL Cessna with really good avionics" it's still a tall order but perhaps within the realm of "eventually possible given great determination and unlimited money" instead of "laugh him out of town."

elmar 10y ago
off course it will be possible when batteries tripple the density without increasing weight. You will get a 25 minute around 30 miles ride with 20 minute reserve
- lisper 10y ago
  And without being a fire hazard.
  - elmar 10y ago
    with current battery technology this is controlled but with new tech chemistry this could become a problem.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Biofuels. Otherwise, you're waiting another 20 years.
  - elmar 10y ago
    to do a small combustion engine VTOL vehicle its even harder I have only seen it work with several two stroke engines. Another optin is turbine like the AirMule, but will be hard to use it for civilian operations the hourly cost is brutal and noise and heat is really annoying for nearby people and even passengers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Aeronautics_AirMule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Aeronautics_AirMule
    - elmar 10y ago
      the two stroke VTOL is homebuilt http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123200/The-ultimate-man-cave-Stunning-aircraft-hangar-middle-Utah-desert-plane-designer-lives-plane--guns.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123200/The-ultimate...
elmar 10y ago
the cost it's also another big barrier I don't see it hitting the market at less than $250k. As a proxy you have Icon A5 it was target at a price point of $130k in 2008 currently it's priced around $240k and only a handful have been delivered. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICON_A5 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICON_A5

natosaichek 10y ago

what about the joby s2? Is that also impossible? It looks feasible and there are a bunch of people working on it... Thoughts?

elmar 10y ago
similiar glider designs to Joby S2 get 1h to 1h30 flight time with current battery density, it all depends how much energy is spent doing the vertical takeoff and landing.
elmar 10y ago
For electrical VTOL the Joby is probably the best bet, one big question mark is, the 16 motors how much will weight even at a very low weight of 15kg each you get 240kg/52lb in motors a similar complete two person glider weights around 300kg/661lb.
- londons_explore 10y ago
  Motors will be more like 1kg each. One can get a 10 kilowatt 1 kg air cooled motor. Batteries are the heavy bit, and in my opinion, the future there is to have batteries capable of 2 minutes of flying, and a gasoline engine as a hybrid generator.
  - elmar 10y ago
    don't know if you ou will manage lift with 160kw will depend on overall weight, you also have to factor the weight of the propeller and rotating mechanism and covers so 10 to 15 kg is not exaggerated.

yeppers123 10y ago

Eh, it's not that far away if we really wanted to push it. Just add an airfoil envelope with enough of something lighter than air(heated air, helium, w/e) to offset the weight until a decent performance point is met. The heat from the engines running could help heat the gas for added efficiency. Hybrid airships are already being marketed by Lockheed Martin so this isn't revolutionary at all.