6 ms·

No way man. The civil servants who are honest with themselves recognize that they didn't provide enough value to the city while working to justify their pension

No way man. The civil servants who are honest with themselves recognize that they didn't provide enough value to the city while working to justify their pensions. This is a situation where the group of people who make the rules are the people who will benefit from the rules, and someone else foots the bill.

jandrese 10y ago
Your position is that all civil servants are overpaid for the work they do? That's a rather bold claim.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- thereisnospork 10y ago
  Considering their pay (inclusive of benefits) is literally bankrupting the state it would seem rather obviously true that they are collectively overpaid.
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    OK, so raise the wages during the time they're working, in order to be competitive with other industries, and provide a 401(k) with matching contributions like the private sector does. Except that will cause a tax increase now rather than a tax increase twenty years from now, and is political suicide. Underpay during working years and promise an outsized pension to make up for it (since that passes the buck of having to fund it to some other sucker who's in office much later on) is a common pattern in the public sector. If you want to end it, you can simply pay competitive wages up-front (and no, pointing to a handful of outliers does not indicate that the average public-sector salary is competitive with private sector).
  - jandrese 10y ago
    Or it means the state has made too many promises without allocating sufficient funds to cover them. Government would be so much cheaper if they didn't pay the workers and instead just made them straight up slaves! Also, they need to find workers that don't need food or energy, since those cost money.
    - kspaans 10y ago
      There are two groups of people letting the state government make those promises: citizens, and investors. Citizens and their representatives aren't paying attention, don't care about pension issues, or don't understand them/aren't having the costs explained. Investors are buying bonds from the state either without performing due diligence or assuming that the state will get bailed out if they do run out of money.

jandrese 10y ago

Your position is that all civil servants are overpaid for the work they do? That's a rather bold claim.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
thereisnospork 10y ago
Considering their pay (inclusive of benefits) is literally bankrupting the state it would seem rather obviously true that they are collectively overpaid.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  OK, so raise the wages during the time they're working, in order to be competitive with other industries, and provide a 401(k) with matching contributions like the private sector does. Except that will cause a tax increase now rather than a tax increase twenty years from now, and is political suicide. Underpay during working years and promise an outsized pension to make up for it (since that passes the buck of having to fund it to some other sucker who's in office much later on) is a common pattern in the public sector. If you want to end it, you can simply pay competitive wages up-front (and no, pointing to a handful of outliers does not indicate that the average public-sector salary is competitive with private sector).
- jandrese 10y ago
  Or it means the state has made too many promises without allocating sufficient funds to cover them. Government would be so much cheaper if they didn't pay the workers and instead just made them straight up slaves! Also, they need to find workers that don't need food or energy, since those cost money.
  - kspaans 10y ago
    There are two groups of people letting the state government make those promises: citizens, and investors. Citizens and their representatives aren't paying attention, don't care about pension issues, or don't understand them/aren't having the costs explained. Investors are buying bonds from the state either without performing due diligence or assuming that the state will get bailed out if they do run out of money.