3 ms·

It is just that every third article I read here on HN tells me so. I guess it's not frustration over only this particular article. But if people talk about dive

It is just that every third article I read here on HN tells me so. I guess it's not frustration over only this particular article. But if people talk about diversity and tolerance, they should remind themselves that not all white people have the same privilege as you do over there. Where I live(d) I wasn't (and still don't) have an opportunity to open a developer account to so I can submit my (free) app to the store. I wasn't able to publish my app. I had to travel and go through horror making a bank account in another country just so I could submit an app to app store. I haven't had any influence over other people or groups, neither did my grand grand grand parents. I'm sick and tired reading from half of the tech (!!!!) article that all white men have some magical privilege.

sho_hn 10y ago
Yeah, I just think this isn't one of those, and we have to be specific, or we're just generically angry, and that's not super-fruitful. The thing is, your personal experience (people believing things about you just based on the color of your skin, their minds being made up; feeling like you're going into things with a disadvantage based on how you are seen; being powerless to argue your way out) is absolutely valid, but it's also how lots of other people feel (immigrants all over the world, displaced people, minorities in any country, etc. - often disadvantaged in business, hiring, dating, ...). I think white people in wealthy western countries currently really do tend to feel this sort of systemic prejudice the least in their lives, due to demographics and history, and often can't empathize with the problem well. I perhaps couldn't myself before I became an immigrant and ran into circles where I'm stereotyped negatively (super jarring experience, but valuable). Some of the outrage and prejudice you see - and it can be off the mark - is a reaction to that, and it's often specific to a situation you're outside of (e.g. race relations in the US of A), and from authors not considering any other situation for lack of knowledge or experience. The bottom line is that it's a whole bunch of breakdowns of empathy all around and in all directions, including towards you. But the cool thing is that this kinda equips you with empathy special powers so you can try to improve things by being an effective communicator about these things.
Manishearth 10y ago
In general, when folks talk of white privilege it's more nuanced than "all white folk are privileged". I recommend going through http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-crosleycorcoran/explaining-white-privilege-to-a-broke-white-person_b_5269255.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-crosleycorcoran/explainin... , which explains privilege from the POV of someone who felt that they didn't have any. It touches on intersectionality -- privilege depends on more than one thing, and you may have privilege due to one aspect of your life that gets negated due to others. This does mean that someone in your exact situation without that aspect might be worse off. This doesn't mean that you will be universally better off than folks who do not share that aspect. The concept of intersectionality is pretty well known and most of the folks talking of diversity seem to be aware of it. Partially the communications breakdown is caused by terminology; someone who understands this will interpret the term "privilege" to include the nuanced nature of intersectionality. Folks unaware of this will interpret it the straightforward way and feel slighted. Such terminology discrepancies are nothing new; an in-group usually will understand words differently from the outgroup.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  Well, Huffington Post is a terrible newspaper. But the first thing it tells is the privilege of country you were born at, meaning I'm less privileged than most of you here and maybe I shouldn't be oppressed all the time with these articles. Citing the article itself, the writers of the stories I'm complaining about don't see their own privilege and should stop using term white straight men because it's oppressive against 200mil or more white people currently living in the ex soviet block! Yes, I know I'm a little pissed right now, but go and check your damn privilege, because I travelled to another country to submit my app to appstore. The app failed miserably by the way.
  - Manishearth 10y ago
    Again, this is the point of intersectionality. You do not have the privilege of being born in the US (or other such places). Understood. That is exactly the point the article was trying to make, privilege is not a simple concept of "you are white, ergo you are universally better off". Like I said, someone non-white in your situation might be worse off, however (not always, again, privilege is not a blanket statement). It's relative, and other aspects of your life may negate the privilege. The pointing out of privilege is not an attack. It can be wrong some times, but don't take it as an attack. > should stop using term white straight men Perhaps. Like I said, the terminology means something different to the in-group. Many folks implicitly understand it in the context of intersectionality. These folks do not mean to say that all white men are bad or all white men have absolute privilege. It's something more nuanced.
cynix 10y ago
I think it's the other way round --- not that white men tend to be privileged (many aren't), but that privileged people tend to be white men (many are).

sho_hn 10y ago

Yeah, I just think this isn't one of those, and we have to be specific, or we're just generically angry, and that's not super-fruitful. The thing is, your personal experience (people believing things about you just based on the color of your skin, their minds being made up; feeling like you're going into things with a disadvantage based on how you are seen; being powerless to argue your way out) is absolutely valid, but it's also how lots of other people feel (immigrants all over the world, displaced people, minorities in any country, etc. - often disadvantaged in business, hiring, dating, ...). I think white people in wealthy western countries currently really do tend to feel this sort of systemic prejudice the least in their lives, due to demographics and history, and often can't empathize with the problem well. I perhaps couldn't myself before I became an immigrant and ran into circles where I'm stereotyped negatively (super jarring experience, but valuable). Some of the outrage and prejudice you see - and it can be off the mark - is a reaction to that, and it's often specific to a situation you're outside of (e.g. race relations in the US of A), and from authors not considering any other situation for lack of knowledge or experience. The bottom line is that it's a whole bunch of breakdowns of empathy all around and in all directions, including towards you. But the cool thing is that this kinda equips you with empathy special powers so you can try to improve things by being an effective communicator about these things.

Manishearth 10y ago

In general, when folks talk of white privilege it's more nuanced than "all white folk are privileged". I recommend going through http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-crosleycorcoran/explaining-white-privilege-to-a-broke-white-person_b_5269255.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-crosleycorcoran/explainin... , which explains privilege from the POV of someone who felt that they didn't have any. It touches on intersectionality -- privilege depends on more than one thing, and you may have privilege due to one aspect of your life that gets negated due to others. This does mean that someone in your exact situation without that aspect might be worse off. This doesn't mean that you will be universally better off than folks who do not share that aspect. The concept of intersectionality is pretty well known and most of the folks talking of diversity seem to be aware of it. Partially the communications breakdown is caused by terminology; someone who understands this will interpret the term "privilege" to include the nuanced nature of intersectionality. Folks unaware of this will interpret it the straightforward way and feel slighted. Such terminology discrepancies are nothing new; an in-group usually will understand words differently from the outgroup.

angry-hacker 10y ago
Well, Huffington Post is a terrible newspaper. But the first thing it tells is the privilege of country you were born at, meaning I'm less privileged than most of you here and maybe I shouldn't be oppressed all the time with these articles. Citing the article itself, the writers of the stories I'm complaining about don't see their own privilege and should stop using term white straight men because it's oppressive against 200mil or more white people currently living in the ex soviet block! Yes, I know I'm a little pissed right now, but go and check your damn privilege, because I travelled to another country to submit my app to appstore. The app failed miserably by the way.
- Manishearth 10y ago
  Again, this is the point of intersectionality. You do not have the privilege of being born in the US (or other such places). Understood. That is exactly the point the article was trying to make, privilege is not a simple concept of "you are white, ergo you are universally better off". Like I said, someone non-white in your situation might be worse off, however (not always, again, privilege is not a blanket statement). It's relative, and other aspects of your life may negate the privilege. The pointing out of privilege is not an attack. It can be wrong some times, but don't take it as an attack. > should stop using term white straight men Perhaps. Like I said, the terminology means something different to the in-group. Many folks implicitly understand it in the context of intersectionality. These folks do not mean to say that all white men are bad or all white men have absolute privilege. It's something more nuanced.

cynix 10y ago

I think it's the other way round --- not that white men tend to be privileged (many aren't), but that privileged people tend to be white men (many are).