7 ms·

As long as you have an influx of other people's money to spend, progressive policies do "exceptional". What the progressive narrative fails to recognise (and ac

As long as you have an influx of other people's money to spend, progressive policies do "exceptional". What the progressive narrative fails to recognise (and actually cares to hide) is that it was a previous huge free market period that allowed to build the pre-conditions that they used.

tonyedgecombe 10y ago
The "pre-condition" for Austria was being on the loosing side of WW2, after that the economy was only 60% of it's pre-war size.
Avshalom 10y ago
free markets also require huge amounts of other people's money while they waste resources in competition before a solution is found.
- hueving 10y ago
  And centrally planned systems don't find a solution to many problems at all (e.g. new low cost innovations). Without competition, there is no incentive to improve the efficiency of anything that meets the bare minimum requirements.
  - sebastianconcpt 10y ago
    Planned systems are doomed by design. They destroy the information that prices carry and end in self-destruction/collapse. Even communist China knows better than that.
- sebastianconcpt 10y ago
  You seem to be confused about the meaning of "other people's money". You see, in a free market, you have voluntary contracts and transactions like in people deciding on how their money is used, put a risk, etc. which is ethically perfect. Progressivists societies, on the contrary, can do nothing without the use of coercion. Then they put their bunch of bureaucrats to vote on how to use the money that they have taken from you at gunpoint.
  - holri 10y ago
    There is no coercion and no gunpoints because the government in Vienna is elected by the people.
    - dmichulke 10y ago
      So "elected by 50%+" means absence of coercion?
      - holri 10y ago
        yes that is how democracy works.
        maverick_iceman 10y ago
        Ah, so minority rights don't matter any more? By your standards even Hitler was democratically elected. That doesn't make his actions moral.
        holri 10y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
        IvarTheHomeless 10y ago
        Hitler was appointed, not elected.
        dmichulke 10y ago
        Coercion is entirely orthogonal to any form of state. In practice, all forms of state use coercion. Try resisting arrest by the police for a crime you are suspect but didn't commit. There are much worse examples that polarize much more.
        sangnoir 10y ago
holri 10y ago
There is no spending but investing. In schools, public transport, social peace. Those investments of the last 80 years come to fruition today for the advantage of everyone. Before Red Vienna was not huge free market period but a huge lost war, pervasive destruction and a dramatically shrunk country, cut off of his industry (Czech) and agriculture (Hungary).
- sebastianconcpt 10y ago
  Before "investing" it got collected by coercion which is immoral. But to follow your hypothesis, can you demonstrate that the output of that "investing" turns out to be ROI positive?
  - holri 10y ago
    Taxing is not coercion, but a democratic decision to distribute wealth. The return on investment in Vienna's commonwealth is the best quality of living in the world (quality of live is a lot more than private money) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Survey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Surve...
    - sebastianconcpt 10y ago
      Taxing is not coercion Explain how is not coercion that a majority decide democratically to take all your money, leave you absolutely nothing, in the street, send SWAT to your house if you resist and shoot you if you offer any active resistance? PS: also you didn't demonstrate your previous claim has any chance to be ROI positive. Can you do that?
      - holri 10y ago
        They do not take all of the circulating money (That would be nonsense because the circle would stop) but in Austria approx. 42%. Since national economy is a circle that money is not lost as an expense but is again invested in the economy and is coming back. ROI is a term of business administration and not national economy and therefore not applicable to the economies of Cities.

tonyedgecombe 10y ago

The "pre-condition" for Austria was being on the loosing side of WW2, after that the economy was only 60% of it's pre-war size.

Avshalom 10y ago

free markets also require huge amounts of other people's money while they waste resources in competition before a solution is found.

hueving 10y ago
And centrally planned systems don't find a solution to many problems at all (e.g. new low cost innovations). Without competition, there is no incentive to improve the efficiency of anything that meets the bare minimum requirements.
- sebastianconcpt 10y ago
  Planned systems are doomed by design. They destroy the information that prices carry and end in self-destruction/collapse. Even communist China knows better than that.
sebastianconcpt 10y ago
You seem to be confused about the meaning of "other people's money". You see, in a free market, you have voluntary contracts and transactions like in people deciding on how their money is used, put a risk, etc. which is ethically perfect. Progressivists societies, on the contrary, can do nothing without the use of coercion. Then they put their bunch of bureaucrats to vote on how to use the money that they have taken from you at gunpoint.
- holri 10y ago
  There is no coercion and no gunpoints because the government in Vienna is elected by the people.
  - dmichulke 10y ago
    So "elected by 50%+" means absence of coercion?
    - holri 10y ago
      yes that is how democracy works.
      - maverick_iceman 10y ago
        Ah, so minority rights don't matter any more? By your standards even Hitler was democratically elected. That doesn't make his actions moral.
        holri 10y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
        IvarTheHomeless 10y ago
        Hitler was appointed, not elected.
      - dmichulke 10y ago
        Coercion is entirely orthogonal to any form of state. In practice, all forms of state use coercion. Try resisting arrest by the police for a crime you are suspect but didn't commit. There are much worse examples that polarize much more.
        sangnoir 10y ago

holri 10y ago

There is no spending but investing. In schools, public transport, social peace. Those investments of the last 80 years come to fruition today for the advantage of everyone. Before Red Vienna was not huge free market period but a huge lost war, pervasive destruction and a dramatically shrunk country, cut off of his industry (Czech) and agriculture (Hungary).

sebastianconcpt 10y ago
Before "investing" it got collected by coercion which is immoral. But to follow your hypothesis, can you demonstrate that the output of that "investing" turns out to be ROI positive?
- holri 10y ago
  Taxing is not coercion, but a democratic decision to distribute wealth. The return on investment in Vienna's commonwealth is the best quality of living in the world (quality of live is a lot more than private money) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Survey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Surve...
  - sebastianconcpt 10y ago
    Taxing is not coercion Explain how is not coercion that a majority decide democratically to take all your money, leave you absolutely nothing, in the street, send SWAT to your house if you resist and shoot you if you offer any active resistance? PS: also you didn't demonstrate your previous claim has any chance to be ROI positive. Can you do that?
    - holri 10y ago
      They do not take all of the circulating money (That would be nonsense because the circle would stop) but in Austria approx. 42%. Since national economy is a circle that money is not lost as an expense but is again invested in the economy and is coming back. ROI is a term of business administration and not national economy and therefore not applicable to the economies of Cities.