4 ms·

Good article by Isaacson. I would add I think it would be good if the CCCers got some outside consultation, both from people in the sex abuse field, and at lea

Good article by Isaacson. I would add I think it would be good if the CCCers got some outside consultation, both from people in the sex abuse field, and at least one person who is an expert on sociopaths, since that is what it seems JA is. I think it would also helpful would be helpful to learn communication skills like active listening and the ones in Marshall Rosenberg's book Nonviolent Communication.

devoply 10y ago
The problem with this sort of thing is that when the pendulum swings the other way then we have a different set of problems. Large subcultures invite sociopaths as there is a population there to exploit. At the end of the day you have to be good at detecting those sort of people, and it's incredibly hard. Eventually though the group identifies and weeds them out. But they exist amongst us and many of them are respected members of their respective communities. They are good at getting up there in status and because of status deflecting blame from themselves. It's hard to challenge them even if you know them for who they are, the masses will not see it until they have already done a bunch of damage to the community. In order to get along people have to give other people benefit of doubt. And that's a opening for a skilled manipulator to play people. It's part and parcel of dealing with human beings.
rurban 10y ago
But if you read the long Zeit article[1] and esp. the latest taz article[2] it becomes clear that the other party consists also of psychopaths whose actions were even more dangerous. [1] http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2016-08/jacob-appelbaum-rape-sexual-abuse-allegations/komplettansicht http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2016-08/jacob-appelbaum-rape-sexua... [2] https://www.taz.de/!5361578/ https://www.taz.de/!5361578/
- mindcrash 10y ago
  As mentioned in the Medium article: "The unvoiced threat I understood was that Jake was willing to (directly or via proxies) coordinate the initiation of a police investigation, leak it to a friendly journalist, and destroy my life if I talked. We ended with a hug and a promise to engage again. Weeks later, a German journalist published a long, well-sourced story, clearly (to me) coordinated by Jake or one of his circle, casually describing Jake providing illegal drugs to party attendees. The sword, it seems, is out of its sheath." Who says these aren't some of Appelbaums German friends in journalism?
- woodandsteel 10y ago
  The link just reinforces what I am saying. You have a community with some bad social norms, and many people in it are now realizing it and trying to change the whole group.
  - woodandsteel 10y ago
    Let me add that there are two competing stories here. One is that JA is a sociopath, and got away with it because of the norms of the group, but now people are changing and rejecting such behavior. The other is that the females in question all thought for years that JA's behavior was fine, or at least not very bad, and then all of them, for some unaccountable reason, went crazy at the same time and irrationally decided to persecute him and him alone. I find the first story a whole lot more plausible than the second.

devoply 10y ago

The problem with this sort of thing is that when the pendulum swings the other way then we have a different set of problems. Large subcultures invite sociopaths as there is a population there to exploit. At the end of the day you have to be good at detecting those sort of people, and it's incredibly hard. Eventually though the group identifies and weeds them out. But they exist amongst us and many of them are respected members of their respective communities. They are good at getting up there in status and because of status deflecting blame from themselves. It's hard to challenge them even if you know them for who they are, the masses will not see it until they have already done a bunch of damage to the community. In order to get along people have to give other people benefit of doubt. And that's a opening for a skilled manipulator to play people. It's part and parcel of dealing with human beings.

rurban 10y ago

But if you read the long Zeit article[1] and esp. the latest taz article[2] it becomes clear that the other party consists also of psychopaths whose actions were even more dangerous. [1] http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2016-08/jacob-appelbaum-rape-sexual-abuse-allegations/komplettansicht http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2016-08/jacob-appelbaum-rape-sexua... [2] https://www.taz.de/!5361578/ https://www.taz.de/!5361578/

mindcrash 10y ago
As mentioned in the Medium article: "The unvoiced threat I understood was that Jake was willing to (directly or via proxies) coordinate the initiation of a police investigation, leak it to a friendly journalist, and destroy my life if I talked. We ended with a hug and a promise to engage again. Weeks later, a German journalist published a long, well-sourced story, clearly (to me) coordinated by Jake or one of his circle, casually describing Jake providing illegal drugs to party attendees. The sword, it seems, is out of its sheath." Who says these aren't some of Appelbaums German friends in journalism?
woodandsteel 10y ago
The link just reinforces what I am saying. You have a community with some bad social norms, and many people in it are now realizing it and trying to change the whole group.
- woodandsteel 10y ago
  Let me add that there are two competing stories here. One is that JA is a sociopath, and got away with it because of the norms of the group, but now people are changing and rejecting such behavior. The other is that the females in question all thought for years that JA's behavior was fine, or at least not very bad, and then all of them, for some unaccountable reason, went crazy at the same time and irrationally decided to persecute him and him alone. I find the first story a whole lot more plausible than the second.