6 ms·

This is such incredibly poor agenda-driven "journalism", with cherry-picked data used to (poorly) attack a sort of straw man argument: Asian Americans seem to o

by themgt 10y ago

This is such incredibly poor agenda-driven "journalism", with cherry-picked data used to (poorly) attack a sort of straw man argument: Asian Americans seem to offer proof that minorities can prosper — and even leapfrog whites — if they work hard and jump through the right hoops. For that reason, Asian Americans have often been invoked as a way to excuse the income gaps between whites and blacks or whites and Hispanics. So even assuming the (unconvincing) argument that where asians live can account for the fact they are more successful than whites, how does their nonetheless COL-adjusted near parity (still ahead!) vs. whites undermine the idea that minorities can succeed in the USA? It's easy and cheap to virtue-signal your care for this difficult problem, but the elephants in the room here are IQ and culture, and mainstream liberalism is frankly bordering on fraudulence with its refusal to confront these topics. If you actually care about fixing the worsening income and wealth gap between races - and I would suggest everyone should, as it is clearly toxic to our social fabric - it's long past time to have honest conversations about all of the potential underlying causes and possible solutions.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
BookmarkSaver 10y ago
There is also this, by the same author: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/19/the-real-secret-to-asian-american-success-was-not-education/?utm_term=.8858dbdb01b4 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/19/the-r... Basically, when you control for education level, Asians come out just behind whites while black and Hispanic minorities still get shafted. And that this didn't used to be the case, that Asians used to have a similar gap, which indicates that Americans have simply gotten less racist towards them. Presumably on such a large scale there shouldn't be a significant discrepancy of income for the same level of education.
- wutbrodo 10y ago
  > Basically, when you control for education level, Asians come out just behind whites while black and Hispanic minorities still get shafted. The Post conveniently leaves out important parts of the paper's findings because it contradicts the conclusion they wanted to draw: The process of institutional economic discrimination against Asians in America was equal to and in many cases stronger than that against black Americans. Hillger's paper argues that, once institutional discrimination was lifted, high-gradient societal discrimination was no match for market forces (suppressed wages for the same productivity from an Asian employee is an opportunity for easy arbitrage by a competent capitalist). These market forces did not have a similar convergence-to-white-income effect on the black labor pool, and Hillger's paper uses measures of productivity not dependent on education to at largely explain the variation. I'm of the opinion that statistical discrimination is pretty messed up too, so this doesn't mean everything is right with the world and no further problems with racism exist. I also get that many people think that statistical racial discrimination is warranted, which leads to the kind of mental backflips necessary to write an article like this. But that doesn't change the fact that pretending that productivity differences are irrelevant is simply bad reporting by the Post: At best, it's shockingly shoddy and at worst it's simply dishonest. Hillger's original paper: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8J_qdFYwNJ6TXdRVkM5S3lMNUU/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8J_qdFYwNJ6TXdRVkM5S3lMNUU... Some more concise analysis with excerpts from the paper: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/11/upward-mobility-discrimination-asians-african-americans.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/11/upw...
- gragas 10y ago
  >And that this didn't used to be the case, that Asians used to have a similar gap, which indicates that Americans have simply gotten less racist towards them. Source? You have no proof that any of these differences are due to racism rather than the underlying culture of each group.
ajamesm 10y ago
So what are those potential underlying causes and possible solutions, if the elephants in the room are IQ and culture? clicks post history https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12159996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12159996 "What has been emerging especially now that genetic sequencing is becoming rapidly cheaper and more advanced at picking human genomes out of the genetic diaspora found in old fossils, is a much more complicated picture. The Chinese obviously have little need to adhere to US political correctness, so they're beginning to push the evidence that Asian hominid genes contributed to the emergence of modern humans/civilization. The emerging picture to me is one of multiple waves of hominin advances spreading in a varied way and admixing with existing local populations. So there's pretty clearly an ancient Out-of-Africa wave of homo erectus(who were far more advanced than previously acknowledged), a possible evolution of "homo erectus+" and wave out of Asia, and likely an "Out of Arabia" mix of neanderthals and AMHs in the Levant, all of which intermixed imperfectly. The Neanderthals themselves look plausibly responsible for some advances in human civilization (Mousterians) What you wind up with is a far more complex picture of human evolution and far more significant and long-standing difference between human populations, which I think requires a new narrative and philosophy for what human equality means and a way to ground it on something more fundamental than a wished-for genetic similarity." "genetic sequencing" "the evidence that Asian hominid genes contributed to the emergence of modern humans/civilization" Hmm... where have I heard this before... "pretty clearly an ancient Out-of-Africa wave of homo erectus(who were far more advanced than previously acknowledged), a possible evolution of "homo erectus+" and wave out of Asia, and likely an "Out of Arabia" mix of neanderthals and AMHs in the Levant, all of which intermixed imperfectly." "far more complex picture of human evolution and far more significant and long-standing difference between human populations" "new narrative and philosophy for what human equality means" Oh, you're a fucking Nazi. Take your phrenology back to Stormfront, buddy.
- eric_b 10y ago
  I'm not sure if you realize it - but your comment is the problem, not the original poster. Sometimes facts don't fit a political narrative. Comments like yours are what have polarized the nation. Your knee-jerk reaction to anything that disagrees with your position is to name-call and shame. Not very good form.
JPKab 10y ago
You're on the money. Sadly, the only way to even discuss culture's role without being labelled a bigot is to discuss the cultural differences within white Americans. When you're talking about how cultural traits prevalent in Appalachian communities like the one I grew up in exacerbate inequality, suddenly you have an audience. See the author J.D. Vance who wrote 'Hillbilly Elegy', and has subsequently become a darling of the political left. It's funny, because my time spent in poor white communities and poor black communities allowed me to see how radically similar the two communities cultural traits often are. And also very similar is the fact that these communities have mixed within them families who go against the grain and succeed by not succumbing to the cultural norms around them. Thing is, if we're honest, it's a lot easier to become popular as a minister or a politician when you tell a disenfranchised group of people that they are victims of someone else than to tell them they need to fix their own culture. Poor white families whose fathers abandon them have the same issues as black families whose fathers are absent, but the media would rather focus on the edge cases where racist cops shoot black men without cause. Nobody ever asked black Americans to vote for a spokesman. Instead the media has decided that Al Sharpton and his ilk should be the ones consulted as to what black folks care about. He's in New York like they are, so it's easy for them and lucrative for him. In the meantime, kids hold signs saying "Black Lives Matter", but nobody wants to hold a sign that says "Black Dads Matter" even though a movement like that would do more to help black America than any government program. 70% of children being born out of wedlock has a huge effect, whether anyone is willing to admit it or not. And blaming incarceration solves nothing. The majority of absent fathers in the black community are not incarcerated.
- wutbrodo 10y ago
  > Thing is, if we're honest, it's a lot easier to become popular as a minister or a politician when you tell a disenfranchised group of people that they are victims of someone else than to tell them they need to fix their own culture. It's not just that it's easier to become popular this way: political figures that are _already popular_ but even pay lip service to cultural effects are sharply criticized by intellectuals. Just look at the spate of articles recently (and throughout his presidency) faulting Barack Obama for the handful of times that he's mentioned the potential for culture to have an effect. He's also been unusually candid for a national politician in talking about the direct effects of racism, so the usual complaint that talking about culture is only a tactic for ignoring actual racism falls flat.
kmicklas 10y ago
Thinly veiled racism is thinly veiled.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
I suspect you'll get a series of high fives and fist bumps just for criticising "mainstream liberalism," no matter how valid the criticism, because that's in vogue right now. You're living under a rock if you believe nobody is studying or confronting IQ and culture and how it relates to race. It's just it's not really intellectually profound to repeat and rehash the same old "scientific racism" that's been going on for the last century and a half, that's why you hear less of it.
- entropica 10y ago
  Nope. I just left an elite American college, and most students there were downright condescending about any possibility that race and IQ are correlated. They felt similarly about culture and racial success. The far-left (which comprises much of the left these days) believes racial disparity is ~100% the fault of white people and their machinations. Please consider that there is good reason for the trend of challenging mainstream liberal hegemony.
- garandus 10y ago
  Have you ever considered that there's a good reason for that fad? I just graduated from an elite American college, and almost everyone there was extremely condescending about the idea that race and IQ were at all correlated. They felt similarly about racial culture and success. In these powerful people's eyes, the underperformance of non-White and non-Asian races is ~100% the fault of White people and their machinations.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    It's telling you created a throwaway to post this. Of course there's a good reason for that fad - scientific racism is a pseudoscience that was created in order to "prove" the inferiority of races and to justify colonialism, slavery, racism, social Darwinism, and racial eugenics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism The correlation between race and IQ is openly "admitted" right there in the into paragraph of the Wikipedia page! If academia is "hiding" it they sure are doing a bad job. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
obastani 10y ago
The entire argument (both parent and the article) is misguided at best -- a large fraction of Asians coming to the US are here for higher education (College, Masters, or Ph.D.). Therefore, many Asian immigrants are the cream of the crop, which skews the income distribution of Asian Americans significantly upwards. The comparison is simply not meaningful.
briholt 10y ago
It's the subtle racism of low expectations. They see communities self-destructing, but rather than expecting them to improve as responsible individuals, they expect them to fail like helpless invalids until the more capable communities save them.
gertef 10y ago
Yes, lets talk about IQ and culture, and how centuries of slavery, oppression, and theft create adverse health conditions that lower IQ. It's much easier to develop a "culture" of education when the government doesn't deploy armed soldiers to lock you out of school, or throw your parents in jail on slim pretenses. When do we start having an honest conversation about reparations for slavery? Why do rich whites pass on ancestral wealth to their children, but not ancestral debts?
whack 10y ago
> "how does their nonetheless COL-adjusted near parity (still ahead!) vs. whites undermine the idea that minorities can succeed in the USA?" The article never claimed to undermine the idea that minorities can succeed in the USA. It claims to undermine the idea that Asian Americans (and minorities in general) can be more successful than whites in similar circumstances. And it has done a pretty good job at that. As the article shows, after adjusting for COL, Asians make as much as Whites, and in fact, make less than whites who are similarly qualified. I've yet to see anyone dispute the math presented.
wallace_f 10y ago
>This is such incredibly poor agenda-driven "journalism", with cherry-picked data used to (poorly) attack a sort of straw man argument You just described the Washington Post. I mean, they said in their "news" section that the Ron Paul Institute was Russian Propaganda, which was just a part of their McCarthyite agenda against political dissenters[1] I'd avoid anything by the WaPo, it's corporate media fake news. 1 - https://theintercept.com/2016/11/26/washington-post-disgracefully-promotes-a-mccarthyite-blacklist-from-a-new-hidden-and-very-shady-group/ https://theintercept.com/2016/11/26/washington-post-disgrace... >mainstream liberalism is frankly bordering on fraudulence with its refusal to confront these topics. I would say it is fraudulent. The taboo on addressing racial differences, especially intelligence, in academia and the media is only taboo if it concludes whites are superior to minorities. For example, "white people can't dance," is a culturally acceptable racist remark. "Asians are better at math" is also culturally acceptable. Any comment that breaks that rule is unacceptable. It's the same in academia and in the courts. If you publish research or a supreme court opinion that minorities are of lower intelligence, like the book, The Bell Curve, or in Justice Scalia's case, you will receive ridicule (and whether just coincidentally or as part of conspiracy theory territory - will be certain of dying a premature death)[2]. Publishing that minorities are above-average intelligence is perfectly acceptable, though [3]. Teaching through a college course that being white is a problem is also acceptable - that's because it fits the rule [4]. Queue everyone calling me alt-right or racist or something awful just for pointing out the fact that everyone knows. It's like 1984. I really hate racism. My best friend I grew up with on my street as a child is black, and I can tell you, kids grow up color blind and are not racist. It's this toxic political correctness and government that perpetuates problems of the past. I have no idea what the further agenda is in perpetuating inequality and inciting further anger and inequality. Everyone should be treated equal, especially in eyes of government. Where we are headed is we are already getting close to Harrison-Bergeron'ing people because of their skin color and past injustice. All racism should not be tolerated. If the problem with government is even worse than I thought then I will end up on some kind of "political dissidents" list just for spelling out these problems. 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve 3 - http://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf http://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbi... 4 - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-university-of-wisconsin-whiteness-class-20161228-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-un...

by themgt 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

BookmarkSaver 10y ago

There is also this, by the same author: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/19/the-real-secret-to-asian-american-success-was-not-education/?utm_term=.8858dbdb01b4 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/19/the-r... Basically, when you control for education level, Asians come out just behind whites while black and Hispanic minorities still get shafted. And that this didn't used to be the case, that Asians used to have a similar gap, which indicates that Americans have simply gotten less racist towards them. Presumably on such a large scale there shouldn't be a significant discrepancy of income for the same level of education.

wutbrodo 10y ago
> Basically, when you control for education level, Asians come out just behind whites while black and Hispanic minorities still get shafted. The Post conveniently leaves out important parts of the paper's findings because it contradicts the conclusion they wanted to draw: The process of institutional economic discrimination against Asians in America was equal to and in many cases stronger than that against black Americans. Hillger's paper argues that, once institutional discrimination was lifted, high-gradient societal discrimination was no match for market forces (suppressed wages for the same productivity from an Asian employee is an opportunity for easy arbitrage by a competent capitalist). These market forces did not have a similar convergence-to-white-income effect on the black labor pool, and Hillger's paper uses measures of productivity not dependent on education to at largely explain the variation. I'm of the opinion that statistical discrimination is pretty messed up too, so this doesn't mean everything is right with the world and no further problems with racism exist. I also get that many people think that statistical racial discrimination is warranted, which leads to the kind of mental backflips necessary to write an article like this. But that doesn't change the fact that pretending that productivity differences are irrelevant is simply bad reporting by the Post: At best, it's shockingly shoddy and at worst it's simply dishonest. Hillger's original paper: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8J_qdFYwNJ6TXdRVkM5S3lMNUU/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8J_qdFYwNJ6TXdRVkM5S3lMNUU... Some more concise analysis with excerpts from the paper: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/11/upward-mobility-discrimination-asians-african-americans.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/11/upw...
gragas 10y ago
>And that this didn't used to be the case, that Asians used to have a similar gap, which indicates that Americans have simply gotten less racist towards them. Source? You have no proof that any of these differences are due to racism rather than the underlying culture of each group.

ajamesm 10y ago

So what are those potential underlying causes and possible solutions, if the elephants in the room are IQ and culture? clicks post history https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12159996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12159996 "What has been emerging especially now that genetic sequencing is becoming rapidly cheaper and more advanced at picking human genomes out of the genetic diaspora found in old fossils, is a much more complicated picture. The Chinese obviously have little need to adhere to US political correctness, so they're beginning to push the evidence that Asian hominid genes contributed to the emergence of modern humans/civilization. The emerging picture to me is one of multiple waves of hominin advances spreading in a varied way and admixing with existing local populations. So there's pretty clearly an ancient Out-of-Africa wave of homo erectus(who were far more advanced than previously acknowledged), a possible evolution of "homo erectus+" and wave out of Asia, and likely an "Out of Arabia" mix of neanderthals and AMHs in the Levant, all of which intermixed imperfectly. The Neanderthals themselves look plausibly responsible for some advances in human civilization (Mousterians) What you wind up with is a far more complex picture of human evolution and far more significant and long-standing difference between human populations, which I think requires a new narrative and philosophy for what human equality means and a way to ground it on something more fundamental than a wished-for genetic similarity." "genetic sequencing" "the evidence that Asian hominid genes contributed to the emergence of modern humans/civilization" Hmm... where have I heard this before... "pretty clearly an ancient Out-of-Africa wave of homo erectus(who were far more advanced than previously acknowledged), a possible evolution of "homo erectus+" and wave out of Asia, and likely an "Out of Arabia" mix of neanderthals and AMHs in the Levant, all of which intermixed imperfectly." "far more complex picture of human evolution and far more significant and long-standing difference between human populations" "new narrative and philosophy for what human equality means" Oh, you're a fucking Nazi. Take your phrenology back to Stormfront, buddy.

eric_b 10y ago
I'm not sure if you realize it - but your comment is the problem, not the original poster. Sometimes facts don't fit a political narrative. Comments like yours are what have polarized the nation. Your knee-jerk reaction to anything that disagrees with your position is to name-call and shame. Not very good form.

JPKab 10y ago

You're on the money. Sadly, the only way to even discuss culture's role without being labelled a bigot is to discuss the cultural differences within white Americans. When you're talking about how cultural traits prevalent in Appalachian communities like the one I grew up in exacerbate inequality, suddenly you have an audience. See the author J.D. Vance who wrote 'Hillbilly Elegy', and has subsequently become a darling of the political left. It's funny, because my time spent in poor white communities and poor black communities allowed me to see how radically similar the two communities cultural traits often are. And also very similar is the fact that these communities have mixed within them families who go against the grain and succeed by not succumbing to the cultural norms around them. Thing is, if we're honest, it's a lot easier to become popular as a minister or a politician when you tell a disenfranchised group of people that they are victims of someone else than to tell them they need to fix their own culture. Poor white families whose fathers abandon them have the same issues as black families whose fathers are absent, but the media would rather focus on the edge cases where racist cops shoot black men without cause. Nobody ever asked black Americans to vote for a spokesman. Instead the media has decided that Al Sharpton and his ilk should be the ones consulted as to what black folks care about. He's in New York like they are, so it's easy for them and lucrative for him. In the meantime, kids hold signs saying "Black Lives Matter", but nobody wants to hold a sign that says "Black Dads Matter" even though a movement like that would do more to help black America than any government program. 70% of children being born out of wedlock has a huge effect, whether anyone is willing to admit it or not. And blaming incarceration solves nothing. The majority of absent fathers in the black community are not incarcerated.

wutbrodo 10y ago
> Thing is, if we're honest, it's a lot easier to become popular as a minister or a politician when you tell a disenfranchised group of people that they are victims of someone else than to tell them they need to fix their own culture. It's not just that it's easier to become popular this way: political figures that are _already popular_ but even pay lip service to cultural effects are sharply criticized by intellectuals. Just look at the spate of articles recently (and throughout his presidency) faulting Barack Obama for the handful of times that he's mentioned the potential for culture to have an effect. He's also been unusually candid for a national politician in talking about the direct effects of racism, so the usual complaint that talking about culture is only a tactic for ignoring actual racism falls flat.

kmicklas 10y ago

Thinly veiled racism is thinly veiled.

nommm-nommm 10y ago

I suspect you'll get a series of high fives and fist bumps just for criticising "mainstream liberalism," no matter how valid the criticism, because that's in vogue right now. You're living under a rock if you believe nobody is studying or confronting IQ and culture and how it relates to race. It's just it's not really intellectually profound to repeat and rehash the same old "scientific racism" that's been going on for the last century and a half, that's why you hear less of it.

entropica 10y ago
Nope. I just left an elite American college, and most students there were downright condescending about any possibility that race and IQ are correlated. They felt similarly about culture and racial success. The far-left (which comprises much of the left these days) believes racial disparity is ~100% the fault of white people and their machinations. Please consider that there is good reason for the trend of challenging mainstream liberal hegemony.
garandus 10y ago
Have you ever considered that there's a good reason for that fad? I just graduated from an elite American college, and almost everyone there was extremely condescending about the idea that race and IQ were at all correlated. They felt similarly about racial culture and success. In these powerful people's eyes, the underperformance of non-White and non-Asian races is ~100% the fault of White people and their machinations.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  It's telling you created a throwaway to post this. Of course there's a good reason for that fad - scientific racism is a pseudoscience that was created in order to "prove" the inferiority of races and to justify colonialism, slavery, racism, social Darwinism, and racial eugenics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism The correlation between race and IQ is openly "admitted" right there in the into paragraph of the Wikipedia page! If academia is "hiding" it they sure are doing a bad job. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

obastani 10y ago

The entire argument (both parent and the article) is misguided at best -- a large fraction of Asians coming to the US are here for higher education (College, Masters, or Ph.D.). Therefore, many Asian immigrants are the cream of the crop, which skews the income distribution of Asian Americans significantly upwards. The comparison is simply not meaningful.

briholt 10y ago

It's the subtle racism of low expectations. They see communities self-destructing, but rather than expecting them to improve as responsible individuals, they expect them to fail like helpless invalids until the more capable communities save them.

gertef 10y ago

Yes, lets talk about IQ and culture, and how centuries of slavery, oppression, and theft create adverse health conditions that lower IQ. It's much easier to develop a "culture" of education when the government doesn't deploy armed soldiers to lock you out of school, or throw your parents in jail on slim pretenses. When do we start having an honest conversation about reparations for slavery? Why do rich whites pass on ancestral wealth to their children, but not ancestral debts?

whack 10y ago

> "how does their nonetheless COL-adjusted near parity (still ahead!) vs. whites undermine the idea that minorities can succeed in the USA?" The article never claimed to undermine the idea that minorities can succeed in the USA. It claims to undermine the idea that Asian Americans (and minorities in general) can be more successful than whites in similar circumstances. And it has done a pretty good job at that. As the article shows, after adjusting for COL, Asians make as much as Whites, and in fact, make less than whites who are similarly qualified. I've yet to see anyone dispute the math presented.

wallace_f 10y ago

>This is such incredibly poor agenda-driven "journalism", with cherry-picked data used to (poorly) attack a sort of straw man argument You just described the Washington Post. I mean, they said in their "news" section that the Ron Paul Institute was Russian Propaganda, which was just a part of their McCarthyite agenda against political dissenters[1] I'd avoid anything by the WaPo, it's corporate media fake news. 1 - https://theintercept.com/2016/11/26/washington-post-disgracefully-promotes-a-mccarthyite-blacklist-from-a-new-hidden-and-very-shady-group/ https://theintercept.com/2016/11/26/washington-post-disgrace... >mainstream liberalism is frankly bordering on fraudulence with its refusal to confront these topics. I would say it is fraudulent. The taboo on addressing racial differences, especially intelligence, in academia and the media is only taboo if it concludes whites are superior to minorities. For example, "white people can't dance," is a culturally acceptable racist remark. "Asians are better at math" is also culturally acceptable. Any comment that breaks that rule is unacceptable. It's the same in academia and in the courts. If you publish research or a supreme court opinion that minorities are of lower intelligence, like the book, The Bell Curve, or in Justice Scalia's case, you will receive ridicule (and whether just coincidentally or as part of conspiracy theory territory - will be certain of dying a premature death)[2]. Publishing that minorities are above-average intelligence is perfectly acceptable, though [3]. Teaching through a college course that being white is a problem is also acceptable - that's because it fits the rule [4]. Queue everyone calling me alt-right or racist or something awful just for pointing out the fact that everyone knows. It's like 1984. I really hate racism. My best friend I grew up with on my street as a child is black, and I can tell you, kids grow up color blind and are not racist. It's this toxic political correctness and government that perpetuates problems of the past. I have no idea what the further agenda is in perpetuating inequality and inciting further anger and inequality. Everyone should be treated equal, especially in eyes of government. Where we are headed is we are already getting close to Harrison-Bergeron'ing people because of their skin color and past injustice. All racism should not be tolerated. If the problem with government is even worse than I thought then I will end up on some kind of "political dissidents" list just for spelling out these problems. 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve 3 - http://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf http://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbi... 4 - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-university-of-wisconsin-whiteness-class-20161228-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-un...