4 ms·

> Imagine if the IRS "accidentally" released Trump's tax returns or been hacked to allow this data to come out. The NYT did publish Trump's stolen tax return,

> Imagine if the IRS "accidentally" released Trump's tax returns or been hacked to allow this data to come out. The NYT did publish Trump's stolen tax return, and were quite self-congratulatory about having done so... > Or if the alleged tapes went public of Donald Trump making openly racist remarks on his TV shows outtakes. ...and, the stories about the hacked material were outnumbered probably 100-1 by the simultaneous coverage of the stolen backstage Access Hollywood tape (which was doubly illegal because California is a "two-party consent" state). Which is not to say either of those things weren't newsworthy, or shouldn't have been reported on, but: it's completely, blatantly hypocritical to say that illegally-obtained information should not be allowed to affect the election when it hurts one candidate, but is fair game to use to hurt the other.

RobAtticus 10y ago
re: two-party consent, IANAL but there seems to be exceptions where if the parties don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, consent is not needed. For example, somebody recording you giving a public speech does not need your permission -- the public can go hear you speak with or without the recording. Since Trump was mic'd up on the bus (they were going to film a segment), I think there is a case to be made that he couldn't realistically make the case he didn't know he was being recorded or could be recorded. I think it'd be a hard sell that this was an illegally recorded conversation.
- smitherfield 10y ago
  He (and Billy Bush) had a reasonable expectation that he was not being recorded by whichever person was doing the recording. In any case, it's only a question of how many laws were broken in the process of its being obtained by media outlets, not whether the law was broken.
threeseed 10y ago
There is no evidence that the NYT stole Trump's tax returns. His ex-wife had copies of those documents and it's widely suspected that she was the one to leak them.
- smitherfield 10y ago
  > There is no evidence that the NYT stole[1] Trump's tax returns. His ex-wife had copies of those documents and it's widely suspected that she was the one to leak them. There's no evidence[2] that Russia hacked the DNC. It's "widely suspected" that murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich leaked the emails.[3] Even if Marla Maples herself provided the returns to the NYT (and the NYT claims they were sent from Trump Tower), I strongly suspect it would've been in that case a violation of their divorce settlement.[4] [1] Obviously the NYT themselves didn't steal Trump's tax returns, but their source almost certainly did. [2] That we've seen. [3] That theory is IMO ridiculous; my point is that it's also evidence-free speculation. [4] If it were Marla, and it didn't violate the divorce settlement, why the anonymity?
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    Wow! Do Trump's exes also live in Trump Tower? That has the potential to really ruin an elevator ride...
acjohnson55 10y ago
It's not hypocritical. There's something very different about a government doing this, let alone a foreign government. Private domestic entities are subject to lawsuits, if the injured party believes their rights have been violated. The recourse is clear. If it's the US government getting directly involved (e.g. IRS leak), that's a huge scandal. That's why Watergate led to the resignation of a president. The only way we can hold foreign governments accountable is via our own government. So sanctions would seem to be completely appropriate to me.

RobAtticus 10y ago

re: two-party consent, IANAL but there seems to be exceptions where if the parties don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, consent is not needed. For example, somebody recording you giving a public speech does not need your permission -- the public can go hear you speak with or without the recording. Since Trump was mic'd up on the bus (they were going to film a segment), I think there is a case to be made that he couldn't realistically make the case he didn't know he was being recorded or could be recorded. I think it'd be a hard sell that this was an illegally recorded conversation.

smitherfield 10y ago
He (and Billy Bush) had a reasonable expectation that he was not being recorded by whichever person was doing the recording. In any case, it's only a question of how many laws were broken in the process of its being obtained by media outlets, not whether the law was broken.

threeseed 10y ago

There is no evidence that the NYT stole Trump's tax returns. His ex-wife had copies of those documents and it's widely suspected that she was the one to leak them.

smitherfield 10y ago
> There is no evidence that the NYT stole[1] Trump's tax returns. His ex-wife had copies of those documents and it's widely suspected that she was the one to leak them. There's no evidence[2] that Russia hacked the DNC. It's "widely suspected" that murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich leaked the emails.[3] Even if Marla Maples herself provided the returns to the NYT (and the NYT claims they were sent from Trump Tower), I strongly suspect it would've been in that case a violation of their divorce settlement.[4] [1] Obviously the NYT themselves didn't steal Trump's tax returns, but their source almost certainly did. [2] That we've seen. [3] That theory is IMO ridiculous; my point is that it's also evidence-free speculation. [4] If it were Marla, and it didn't violate the divorce settlement, why the anonymity?
- jessaustin 10y ago
  Wow! Do Trump's exes also live in Trump Tower? That has the potential to really ruin an elevator ride...

acjohnson55 10y ago

It's not hypocritical. There's something very different about a government doing this, let alone a foreign government. Private domestic entities are subject to lawsuits, if the injured party believes their rights have been violated. The recourse is clear. If it's the US government getting directly involved (e.g. IRS leak), that's a huge scandal. That's why Watergate led to the resignation of a president. The only way we can hold foreign governments accountable is via our own government. So sanctions would seem to be completely appropriate to me.