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>But Rust can compete on so many more levels How ? There are languages with more expressive type systems high level type systems (Haskel/OCaml presumably). The

>But Rust can compete on so many more levels How ? There are languages with more expressive type systems high level type systems (Haskel/OCaml presumably). There are languages with much more mature libraries, ecosystems and tooling (C#/Java). There are languages with both (F#/Scala). What is it that makes Rust a good applications programming language ? You said it your self GC doesn't really matter that much in this space and GC based languages are just more elegant and not to mention the tooling is way more mature. Runtime also doesn't matter that much and with the recent changes to .NET can be avoided anyway. This Rust fanboyism is turning in to the new node hype "use node for everything node is web scale fast because it uses an event loop io instead of thread based io", "use rust for everything because the type safety is literally the best and it's the only language with a strong type system out there". I get it it's new and shiny, I like it to, and it has a strong argument to make in the systems programming - the designers are doing a good job of making trade offs that let you retain low level control while still having memory safety - but these tradeoffs are just that and they come at the expense of higher level stuff, higher level languages don't need to make these because they don't pretend to be systems programming languages.

andrewflnr 10y ago
Yeah, on any given dimension, even safety, you'll find languages that are stronger than Rust. It excels IMO because of the balance it finds between type system, safety, functional vs imperative code, etc. It puts all these together in one package that I feel like I can use for actual work. I don't know of any other solid contenders here, except maybe Swift. I have to agree that the "Rust all the things!" game is getting old.
EugeneOZ 10y ago
When I write in Rust, I have feeling "that's how programming should work". I don't know how to express it in more scientific way. Errors handling, pattern matching, Result type - it's all how it should work. I know, some other languages have similar features, but Rust also has race-conditions protection (very important thing), good package manager out of the box, testing tool (cargo test), very smart compiler and great performance - just all the best.
- newsat13 10y ago
  I get the opposite feeling. When I write in Rust, I have feeling "that's how programming shouldn't work". The syntax is awkward and you are expected to spend weeks to get anything done. Ultimately, it seems to come down to Rust fans who have a sunken cost fallacy - I spent weeks learning this, so they think it is worth it.
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    Just because some people have a different opinion than you, doesn't mean it is due to fallacious reasoning. Ultimately, it seems to come down to rust haters who have a sunken cost fallacy - I spent years writing bad code in bad lanaguages, so I don't want to give that up to do things better.
    - EugeneOZ 10y ago
      Please be more patient :) Flamewars will not help us, definitely. I'm nobody to criticize your way to communicate, but for the sake of Rust community reputation - please let's avoid "Rust vs X" wars.
      - MustardTiger 10y ago
        Please be more patient :) Replying to posts you didn't read will not help us, definitely.
  - EugeneOZ 10y ago
    Few weeks is not enough time to get it when you don't like ideas of the language initially. I tried to read one dynamic language (will not name it to avoid fans fury) and realized very quickly that it's not my language. The only difference - I've been never thinking about "sunken cost fallacy" - there are languages I can use and there are others, and this diversity is necessary for healthy evolution.
  - spc476 10y ago
    When I was learning C back in 1990, it took me a long time to get comfortable with it, and that's after years of programming in Assembly language (8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit). It took me some time to stop writing assembly in C and start writing C in C, if that make sense. I haven't switched to Rust yet (I still deal with C/C++ at work on "legacy" code, and I'm having too much fun with Lua for my own stuff) but I don't expect to pick it up "quickly" and I'm sure I'll be trying to write C in Rust for some time. It comes with the territory.
stcredzero 10y ago
This Rust fanboyism is turning in to the new node hype "use node for everything node is web scale fast because it uses an event loop io instead of thread based io" If what you are suggesting is true, isn't the biggest problem by far the fanboyism posing as knowledge? Wouldn't complaining about Rust be like living in the age of alchemy, and complaining about someone's particular potion? Isn't the epistemological squishyness of the entire field the biggest problem by far?
- llogiq 10y ago
  No, that's cache invalidation. And naming things.

andrewflnr 10y ago

Yeah, on any given dimension, even safety, you'll find languages that are stronger than Rust. It excels IMO because of the balance it finds between type system, safety, functional vs imperative code, etc. It puts all these together in one package that I feel like I can use for actual work. I don't know of any other solid contenders here, except maybe Swift. I have to agree that the "Rust all the things!" game is getting old.

EugeneOZ 10y ago

When I write in Rust, I have feeling "that's how programming should work". I don't know how to express it in more scientific way. Errors handling, pattern matching, Result type - it's all how it should work. I know, some other languages have similar features, but Rust also has race-conditions protection (very important thing), good package manager out of the box, testing tool (cargo test), very smart compiler and great performance - just all the best.

newsat13 10y ago
I get the opposite feeling. When I write in Rust, I have feeling "that's how programming shouldn't work". The syntax is awkward and you are expected to spend weeks to get anything done. Ultimately, it seems to come down to Rust fans who have a sunken cost fallacy - I spent weeks learning this, so they think it is worth it.
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  Just because some people have a different opinion than you, doesn't mean it is due to fallacious reasoning. Ultimately, it seems to come down to rust haters who have a sunken cost fallacy - I spent years writing bad code in bad lanaguages, so I don't want to give that up to do things better.
  - EugeneOZ 10y ago
    Please be more patient :) Flamewars will not help us, definitely. I'm nobody to criticize your way to communicate, but for the sake of Rust community reputation - please let's avoid "Rust vs X" wars.
    - MustardTiger 10y ago
      Please be more patient :) Replying to posts you didn't read will not help us, definitely.
- EugeneOZ 10y ago
  Few weeks is not enough time to get it when you don't like ideas of the language initially. I tried to read one dynamic language (will not name it to avoid fans fury) and realized very quickly that it's not my language. The only difference - I've been never thinking about "sunken cost fallacy" - there are languages I can use and there are others, and this diversity is necessary for healthy evolution.
- spc476 10y ago
  When I was learning C back in 1990, it took me a long time to get comfortable with it, and that's after years of programming in Assembly language (8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit). It took me some time to stop writing assembly in C and start writing C in C, if that make sense. I haven't switched to Rust yet (I still deal with C/C++ at work on "legacy" code, and I'm having too much fun with Lua for my own stuff) but I don't expect to pick it up "quickly" and I'm sure I'll be trying to write C in Rust for some time. It comes with the territory.

stcredzero 10y ago

This Rust fanboyism is turning in to the new node hype "use node for everything node is web scale fast because it uses an event loop io instead of thread based io" If what you are suggesting is true, isn't the biggest problem by far the fanboyism posing as knowledge? Wouldn't complaining about Rust be like living in the age of alchemy, and complaining about someone's particular potion? Isn't the epistemological squishyness of the entire field the biggest problem by far?

llogiq 10y ago
No, that's cache invalidation. And naming things.