9 ms·

Ask HN: Every website wants to send me notifications

62 points by ankit84 10y ago

Most of the news, blog, or e-commerce websites I visit these days ask me to get notified about the new content. Is this ruining the web experience? Is this overuse of Notification APIs by websites? E.g. mdn.mozillademos.org wants to show notifications. {BLOCK} {ALLOW}

brianprovost 10y ago
I've never clicked allow. I don't turn on notifications for phone apps either though.
shortoncash 10y ago
I actually like this feature. It's more useful on sites that don't update as frequently or have more obscure content. However, I really dislike notifications from the mainstream websites because I was going to visit them during the day anyway.
adrianN 10y ago
If I want notifications from a website I add its RSS feed to my reader.
untog 10y ago
I'm surprised you are seeing this with "most" sites - I barely ever see it, but I agree that it's infuriating when I do. I don't think this trend will last, though. If a user denies the notification request then the site is never allowed to ask again - the user has to manually enable the permission. People are going to learn quite quickly that if you don't put the request in the context of a specific action you're screwing yourself over. That said, I wouldn't mind it if these prompts could only be shown in response to click events. Small downside, but it would stop the request spam quite effectively.
- sarreph 10y ago
  > If you don't put the request in the context of a specific action you're screwing yourself over. Very, very true; perfect example being iOS's trend towards 'soft-onboarding' privacy controls such as mic/camera/location.
  - kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
    That just turns everyone into boiling frogs.
- balac 10y ago
  > If a user denies the notification request then the site is never allowed to ask again Sites will start doing what apps have been doing for a while on ios, use a custom dialog to ask for the permission until they agree, only then will they trigger the native, one time only dialog.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - katpas 10y ago
    LinkedIn only offer an agree and a not now option. It's really irritating. I'm literally never going to enable that.
    - tedmiston 10y ago
      It wouldn't be their first UX dark pattern.
  - hugodahl 10y ago
    I have already experienced this in several sites, which I didn't make note of. Comically enough, since they detect that I'm on a Mac (correct), they determine that showing a Safari-esque fake notification would be good enough? Using mainly Chrome, it certainly looks out of place, and fake/fraudulent.
- majewsky 10y ago
  I only see it in Slack, and there it's very much justified IMO.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    I see it about once a day, on news sites; I commented about it recently in another thread. Slack and similar apps are the only reasonable use of this that I can imagine. Maybe gmail?
superplussed 10y ago
I don't think it is ruining the experience because it's easy to not allow them, my question is: how is it that so many people are clicking allow that businesses see it worth the annoyance to add this to their site. That's what baffles me.
- jpalomaki 10y ago
  Maybe the problem is that you don't know how few will allow it, before you add it to the site. When you know that nobody cares, all the work is already done and removing the feature would actually require some more effort.
- saji13 10y ago
  Probably because they don't read it and think it is the cookie notification.
ankit84 10y ago
Example: Never miss a great news story! Get instant notifications from Economic Times http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/governments-direct-tax-kitty-swells-to-rs-5-57-lakh-crore-between-april-and-december/articleshow/56240236.cms http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/gov... This news site is showing a custom popup to ask for permission and blocking the content.
sdfjkl 10y ago
That's what RSS is for, no? Keeps the subscription under your control, you don't have to share anything with anyone, you can unsubscribe easily and it's trivial to anonymize through a reader that caches/proxies the requests. Perfect for the end user. Not so perfect for the spam industry, of course, but whenever those guys get to decide how something on the internet should work it always turns ugly, so that really has to stop.
- sdfjkl 10y ago
  To turn it off in Firefox' about:config, switch both to False: dom.webnotifications.serviceworker.enabled dom.webnotifications.enabled
  - Jade_Jet 10y ago
    Thank you for that, I keep getting annoyed by that and keep forgetting to look up how to disable that. I finally just disabled it.
- untog 10y ago
  Notifications can do a lot more than just tell you when new content was posted. Think of, well, just about anything that an app notification does. New message, new e-mail, etc etc
  - andrewguenther 10y ago
    No! I hate the idea of each individual app being able to instantly notify me of new content! I want all of my notifications in one indistinguishable place, outside the context of it's source! It's the perfect interface! /s
- andrewguenther 10y ago
  > That's what RSS is for, no? > Perfect for the end user Really? Do you genuinely believe that RSS Readers are widely used? Do you really think that the average non-technical user can and/or is willing to use RSS software, let alone configure a proxy? Do you even think they care? Personal opinion: I love RSS feeds, but to think that it is somehow superior to notifications for the average user is silly.
return0 10y ago
And every blog (and not only blog) asks me to subscribe to their newsletter before i even read the article. Are these things so effective that everyone uses them?
- perlgeek 10y ago
  Unfortunately yes. Popups get a rather high conversion, and if you want to sell an info product, selling to an email list seems to be the way to go.
caleblloyd 10y ago
I run Slack in it's own Chrome Window via the Add to Desktop Feature in the Chrome options menu. With Notifications Enabled it is a viable replacement to the desktop app. Slack's Desktop app is built on Electron, so it's a second installation of Chrome anyways.
agumonkey 10y ago
Maybe reverse the behavior. Instead of asking, make it a standard feature in UI: Alt-N => browser pop under: [offers notifications][show all][show some] Or maybe just some icon in the url bar ?
BurningFrog 10y ago
My main annoyance is that I'm not sure what they're asking for? What kind of notification? How does it work? When/where will I be notified? How would I turn it off?
tzs 10y ago
Has anyone got lucky and had a site do all of the following on the same page? • Ask to send notifications, • Ask to use your location, • Say something about you not having the SharePoint plugin or asking permission to use it or something like that?
bazzargh 10y ago
Chrome lets you disable that request: Preferences->Show advanced settings->Content Settings (under 'Privacy')->Notifications Select "Do not allow any site to show notifications" Myself, I find this just as bad as the constant overlays asking for you to sign up to a mailing list. I use the 'Behind the Overlay' extension to kill those, but I'd like something that prevented them appearing in the first place.
- tbirrell 10y ago
  This assumes Chrome bothers to remember your settings in the first place :P
awinter-py 10y ago
Increased engagement from the users who stay is more visible than the attrition of the users who don't return because of notification overload. There's a 'silent majority' effect when you measure the impact of a feature that increases engagement. Imagine a feature causes 50% of users to immediately read another article and the other 50% to never return. That may look like a win after 2 weeks of testing, but the long-term effects on your business can be iffy.
kareldonk 10y ago
Subscription popups/overlays are the anti christ
nkkollaw 10y ago
I hate those in news sites, but I did find them useful for a couple of websites—mainly where I was waiting for a reply for an auction or booking request.
rwieruch 10y ago
Google will punish pop ups in the future. [0] I heard something about early 2017, but cannot find where it's written down. - [0] https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2016/08/helping-users-easily-access-content-on.html https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2016/08/helping-users-easi...
prophesi 10y ago
I think the best way to go about it is to have a switch/checkbox for the user to opt-in. Only then will the browser prompt the user to enable notifications. It's trivial to make this change. I'm amazed so many sites have this feature, because it was an absolute nightmare for me to get it working alongside Google's sw-precache library.
jsz0 10y ago
One good thing about web notification requests is you can use them as an opportunity to evaluate what sites you want to continue reading on a regular basis. When I get a notification request I always stop and think about it for a minute. If a site isn't notification worthy then is it worth reading everyday? Sometimes yeah but I've been able to purge a lot of sites of my daily reading list using this method. I was surprised at just how many sites I was reading purely out of habit. Being forced to judge their quality / importance to me was super helpful.
rootme 10y ago
Is the new Pop Up Banner Option?
ryanmccullagh 10y ago
Notifications are the most annoying thing ever. Facebook innovated on the notification icon and concept back in 2008 or so. Since then every one has followed their path. I do not like notifications on my phone unless it is for my email and I am currently on call (Thanks FastMail for having an amazing notification system (real time)).
tedmiston 10y ago
I've been tossing around building a global notifications blocker. You could turn it on / off when you just want to browse Facebook or whatever site without the notifications and that tiny red badge nagging you away from what you're doing.

62 points by ankit84 10y ago

brianprovost 10y ago

I've never clicked allow. I don't turn on notifications for phone apps either though.

shortoncash 10y ago

I actually like this feature. It's more useful on sites that don't update as frequently or have more obscure content. However, I really dislike notifications from the mainstream websites because I was going to visit them during the day anyway.

adrianN 10y ago

If I want notifications from a website I add its RSS feed to my reader.

untog 10y ago

I'm surprised you are seeing this with "most" sites - I barely ever see it, but I agree that it's infuriating when I do. I don't think this trend will last, though. If a user denies the notification request then the site is never allowed to ask again - the user has to manually enable the permission. People are going to learn quite quickly that if you don't put the request in the context of a specific action you're screwing yourself over. That said, I wouldn't mind it if these prompts could only be shown in response to click events. Small downside, but it would stop the request spam quite effectively.

sarreph 10y ago
> If you don't put the request in the context of a specific action you're screwing yourself over. Very, very true; perfect example being iOS's trend towards 'soft-onboarding' privacy controls such as mic/camera/location.
- kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
  That just turns everyone into boiling frogs.
balac 10y ago
> If a user denies the notification request then the site is never allowed to ask again Sites will start doing what apps have been doing for a while on ios, use a custom dialog to ask for the permission until they agree, only then will they trigger the native, one time only dialog.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- katpas 10y ago
  LinkedIn only offer an agree and a not now option. It's really irritating. I'm literally never going to enable that.
  - tedmiston 10y ago
    It wouldn't be their first UX dark pattern.
- hugodahl 10y ago
  I have already experienced this in several sites, which I didn't make note of. Comically enough, since they detect that I'm on a Mac (correct), they determine that showing a Safari-esque fake notification would be good enough? Using mainly Chrome, it certainly looks out of place, and fake/fraudulent.
majewsky 10y ago
I only see it in Slack, and there it's very much justified IMO.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  I see it about once a day, on news sites; I commented about it recently in another thread. Slack and similar apps are the only reasonable use of this that I can imagine. Maybe gmail?

superplussed 10y ago

I don't think it is ruining the experience because it's easy to not allow them, my question is: how is it that so many people are clicking allow that businesses see it worth the annoyance to add this to their site. That's what baffles me.

jpalomaki 10y ago
Maybe the problem is that you don't know how few will allow it, before you add it to the site. When you know that nobody cares, all the work is already done and removing the feature would actually require some more effort.
saji13 10y ago
Probably because they don't read it and think it is the cookie notification.

ankit84 10y ago

Example: Never miss a great news story! Get instant notifications from Economic Times http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/governments-direct-tax-kitty-swells-to-rs-5-57-lakh-crore-between-april-and-december/articleshow/56240236.cms http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/gov... This news site is showing a custom popup to ask for permission and blocking the content.

sdfjkl 10y ago

That's what RSS is for, no? Keeps the subscription under your control, you don't have to share anything with anyone, you can unsubscribe easily and it's trivial to anonymize through a reader that caches/proxies the requests. Perfect for the end user. Not so perfect for the spam industry, of course, but whenever those guys get to decide how something on the internet should work it always turns ugly, so that really has to stop.

sdfjkl 10y ago
To turn it off in Firefox' about:config, switch both to False: dom.webnotifications.serviceworker.enabled dom.webnotifications.enabled
- Jade_Jet 10y ago
  Thank you for that, I keep getting annoyed by that and keep forgetting to look up how to disable that. I finally just disabled it.
untog 10y ago
Notifications can do a lot more than just tell you when new content was posted. Think of, well, just about anything that an app notification does. New message, new e-mail, etc etc
- andrewguenther 10y ago
  No! I hate the idea of each individual app being able to instantly notify me of new content! I want all of my notifications in one indistinguishable place, outside the context of it's source! It's the perfect interface! /s
andrewguenther 10y ago
> That's what RSS is for, no? > Perfect for the end user Really? Do you genuinely believe that RSS Readers are widely used? Do you really think that the average non-technical user can and/or is willing to use RSS software, let alone configure a proxy? Do you even think they care? Personal opinion: I love RSS feeds, but to think that it is somehow superior to notifications for the average user is silly.

return0 10y ago

And every blog (and not only blog) asks me to subscribe to their newsletter before i even read the article. Are these things so effective that everyone uses them?

perlgeek 10y ago
Unfortunately yes. Popups get a rather high conversion, and if you want to sell an info product, selling to an email list seems to be the way to go.

caleblloyd 10y ago

I run Slack in it's own Chrome Window via the Add to Desktop Feature in the Chrome options menu. With Notifications Enabled it is a viable replacement to the desktop app. Slack's Desktop app is built on Electron, so it's a second installation of Chrome anyways.

agumonkey 10y ago

Maybe reverse the behavior. Instead of asking, make it a standard feature in UI: Alt-N => browser pop under: [offers notifications][show all][show some] Or maybe just some icon in the url bar ?

BurningFrog 10y ago

My main annoyance is that I'm not sure what they're asking for? What kind of notification? How does it work? When/where will I be notified? How would I turn it off?

tzs 10y ago

Has anyone got lucky and had a site do all of the following on the same page? • Ask to send notifications, • Ask to use your location, • Say something about you not having the SharePoint plugin or asking permission to use it or something like that?

bazzargh 10y ago

Chrome lets you disable that request: Preferences->Show advanced settings->Content Settings (under 'Privacy')->Notifications Select "Do not allow any site to show notifications" Myself, I find this just as bad as the constant overlays asking for you to sign up to a mailing list. I use the 'Behind the Overlay' extension to kill those, but I'd like something that prevented them appearing in the first place.

tbirrell 10y ago
This assumes Chrome bothers to remember your settings in the first place :P

awinter-py 10y ago

Increased engagement from the users who stay is more visible than the attrition of the users who don't return because of notification overload. There's a 'silent majority' effect when you measure the impact of a feature that increases engagement. Imagine a feature causes 50% of users to immediately read another article and the other 50% to never return. That may look like a win after 2 weeks of testing, but the long-term effects on your business can be iffy.

kareldonk 10y ago

Subscription popups/overlays are the anti christ

nkkollaw 10y ago

I hate those in news sites, but I did find them useful for a couple of websites—mainly where I was waiting for a reply for an auction or booking request.

rwieruch 10y ago

Google will punish pop ups in the future. [0] I heard something about early 2017, but cannot find where it's written down. - [0] https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2016/08/helping-users-easily-access-content-on.html https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2016/08/helping-users-easi...

prophesi 10y ago

I think the best way to go about it is to have a switch/checkbox for the user to opt-in. Only then will the browser prompt the user to enable notifications. It's trivial to make this change. I'm amazed so many sites have this feature, because it was an absolute nightmare for me to get it working alongside Google's sw-precache library.

jsz0 10y ago

One good thing about web notification requests is you can use them as an opportunity to evaluate what sites you want to continue reading on a regular basis. When I get a notification request I always stop and think about it for a minute. If a site isn't notification worthy then is it worth reading everyday? Sometimes yeah but I've been able to purge a lot of sites of my daily reading list using this method. I was surprised at just how many sites I was reading purely out of habit. Being forced to judge their quality / importance to me was super helpful.

rootme 10y ago

Is the new Pop Up Banner Option?

ryanmccullagh 10y ago

Notifications are the most annoying thing ever. Facebook innovated on the notification icon and concept back in 2008 or so. Since then every one has followed their path. I do not like notifications on my phone unless it is for my email and I am currently on call (Thanks FastMail for having an amazing notification system (real time)).

tedmiston 10y ago

I've been tossing around building a global notifications blocker. You could turn it on / off when you just want to browse Facebook or whatever site without the notifications and that tiny red badge nagging you away from what you're doing.