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China wasn't always that way: it was a choice they made to become the worlds manufacturers, with the complicity of the global financial elite. We moved the fac

China wasn't always that way: it was a choice they made to become the worlds manufacturers, with the complicity of the global financial elite. We moved the factories over there, we can move them back.

mercurysmessage 10y ago
To be automated, which is what will, and is happening.
- carsongross 10y ago
  I'm perfectly happy with that, although I think it is oversold and used as an excuse in many cases. So long as the productive capacity, intellectual property and knock on effects are kept domestic, good.
  - witty_username 10y ago
    Have you heard of comparative advantage? It may not be advantageous for the U.S. to keep such things domestic; instead the intellectual property may be better utilized in China.
    - carsongross 10y ago
      I took two years of economics indoctrination at Cal. Yes, I'm aware of the theory. Suffice to say, I no longer believe that ceteris is paribus.
      - witty_username 10y ago
        Why?
        carsongross 10y ago
        Watching the asian economies thrive with mercantilist practices, learning about America's early mercantilist practices, and reading Vox Day, John C. Médaille and Steve Keen on the matter.
witty_username 10y ago
Why? After all the American people want cheaper things and that is done by moving factories to China.
- Chathamization 10y ago
  For a lot of things, I'm not sure it saves people enough money to notice. Production isn't the entire price of a product - you also have things like transportation, retail markup, R&D, advertising, etc. Let's say that there's a $3.50 product that costs $1.50 to produce, and a company can save 10% of production costs by producing it in China (even with lower wages you don't tend to have huge savings when things like transportation, lower quality, distance from quality inspectors, etc. are added in). So that's a 15 cents saving - now some of that the company is going to keep (let's say 5 cents), some will go to the businesses buying wholesale (let's say another 5 cents), and some will go to the consumer (let's say the remaining 5 cents). So in the end it might be the difference between paying $3.45 and $3.50 for the consumer - something most people wouldn't notice. Of course, for a company it's a much bigger difference - if everything costs them $2.25, and they're selling it for $2.75, then an extra 5 cents per unit means their profit margins go up 10%. Of course this is going to vary a great deal depending on a number of factors (what kind of product, if you're buying generic, etc.). But I think for a lot of products the average American wouldn't notice much of a price difference if they were being made in the U.S.
  - memracom 10y ago
    A notable example of electronics that is not made in China is the Raspberry PI which is made in the UK, in Pencoed, Wales, formerly the heart of the coal mining industry. http://www.sonypencoed.co.uk/news/2016/03/01/latest-raspberry-pi-to-be-manufactured-in-sony-pencoed/ http://www.sonypencoed.co.uk/news/2016/03/01/latest-raspberr... They haven't always been able to make it in the UK, but as the computer became more popular, the economics have worked out. But the driver for this has been the fact that the organization behind Raspberry PI wants to develop hi-tech engineering education and manufacturing in the UK. There is an embedded computer called PICaxe that was launched in the UK for similar reasons, boosting engineering education in the country. It roughly competes with Arduino as a platform.

mercurysmessage 10y ago

To be automated, which is what will, and is happening.

carsongross 10y ago
I'm perfectly happy with that, although I think it is oversold and used as an excuse in many cases. So long as the productive capacity, intellectual property and knock on effects are kept domestic, good.
- witty_username 10y ago
  Have you heard of comparative advantage? It may not be advantageous for the U.S. to keep such things domestic; instead the intellectual property may be better utilized in China.
  - carsongross 10y ago
    I took two years of economics indoctrination at Cal. Yes, I'm aware of the theory. Suffice to say, I no longer believe that ceteris is paribus.
    - witty_username 10y ago
      Why?
      - carsongross 10y ago
        Watching the asian economies thrive with mercantilist practices, learning about America's early mercantilist practices, and reading Vox Day, John C. Médaille and Steve Keen on the matter.

witty_username 10y ago

Why? After all the American people want cheaper things and that is done by moving factories to China.

Chathamization 10y ago
For a lot of things, I'm not sure it saves people enough money to notice. Production isn't the entire price of a product - you also have things like transportation, retail markup, R&D, advertising, etc. Let's say that there's a $3.50 product that costs $1.50 to produce, and a company can save 10% of production costs by producing it in China (even with lower wages you don't tend to have huge savings when things like transportation, lower quality, distance from quality inspectors, etc. are added in). So that's a 15 cents saving - now some of that the company is going to keep (let's say 5 cents), some will go to the businesses buying wholesale (let's say another 5 cents), and some will go to the consumer (let's say the remaining 5 cents). So in the end it might be the difference between paying $3.45 and $3.50 for the consumer - something most people wouldn't notice. Of course, for a company it's a much bigger difference - if everything costs them $2.25, and they're selling it for $2.75, then an extra 5 cents per unit means their profit margins go up 10%. Of course this is going to vary a great deal depending on a number of factors (what kind of product, if you're buying generic, etc.). But I think for a lot of products the average American wouldn't notice much of a price difference if they were being made in the U.S.
- memracom 10y ago
  A notable example of electronics that is not made in China is the Raspberry PI which is made in the UK, in Pencoed, Wales, formerly the heart of the coal mining industry. http://www.sonypencoed.co.uk/news/2016/03/01/latest-raspberry-pi-to-be-manufactured-in-sony-pencoed/ http://www.sonypencoed.co.uk/news/2016/03/01/latest-raspberr... They haven't always been able to make it in the UK, but as the computer became more popular, the economics have worked out. But the driver for this has been the fact that the organization behind Raspberry PI wants to develop hi-tech engineering education and manufacturing in the UK. There is an embedded computer called PICaxe that was launched in the UK for similar reasons, boosting engineering education in the country. It roughly competes with Arduino as a platform.