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"Torture was usually done without reason" That's an odd way to look at it. Torture is usually done with the purpose of the torturer getting sadistic enjoyment

"Torture was usually done without reason" That's an odd way to look at it. Torture is usually done with the purpose of the torturer getting sadistic enjoyment from torturing. It has happened consistently throughout history and continues to happen, and probably always will. It seems clear to me that there's a predisposition in certain proportion of humans to want to torture, and a predisposition in the population at large to construct social structures to enable it (private armies, state armies, colonial occupying forces, CIA etc).

hprotagonist 10y ago
>Torture is usually done with the purpose of the torturer getting sadistic enjoyment from torturing. Much like rape, I'm pretty sure torture is done for power and control and subjugation. It's a little worse to imagine an impartial or dispassionate torturer, "just doing my job", but I am convinced they exist.
- tbrownaw 10y ago
  Much like rape, I'm pretty sure torture is done for power and control and subjugation. If you're talking about organized systematic (rape|torture) tied to military or political goals, sure. But if you're talking about the standard narrative of... whatever you call the "ordinary" kind of rape that's supposed to be reported to local police instead of the UN or war crimes tribunals, I thought that was largely debunked?
  - Mz 10y ago
    A lot of people find the other explanation too upsetting to consider. So this line of reasoning continues to get harped on.
Cyph0n 10y ago
I agree that there is definitely a reason why humans use torture in general. What I meant by "no reason" is that there was usually no immediate need for torture (confession, security threat, etc.) in the case of political prisoners in Tunisia. I however disagree that it's "usually" done for enjoyment. My belief is that the primary motivation for torturers is either obeying the chain of command, or genuine belief that what they're doing is for some greater good. Actually, one of the victims who spoke during the first truth commission session said that his only request was that his torturers come forward and explain why they had to sexually abuse him. He said that he understood the use of other forms of torture, but he felt that sexual abuse was just too much and simply unnecessary. I last heard that some of his torturers approached the truth commission (anonymously) in compliance with his request.
newswriter99 10y ago
But do you think there's some sort of gain for a person or someone in a society to enjoy torture? Obviously if everyone did it would lead to chaos, but is it possible that torture is, at some point, necessary?
- 13of40 10y ago
  People seem to have an instinct for it, but maybe it was something that helped us a million years ago but isn't compatible with modern human life.

hprotagonist 10y ago

>Torture is usually done with the purpose of the torturer getting sadistic enjoyment from torturing. Much like rape, I'm pretty sure torture is done for power and control and subjugation. It's a little worse to imagine an impartial or dispassionate torturer, "just doing my job", but I am convinced they exist.

tbrownaw 10y ago
Much like rape, I'm pretty sure torture is done for power and control and subjugation. If you're talking about organized systematic (rape|torture) tied to military or political goals, sure. But if you're talking about the standard narrative of... whatever you call the "ordinary" kind of rape that's supposed to be reported to local police instead of the UN or war crimes tribunals, I thought that was largely debunked?
- Mz 10y ago
  A lot of people find the other explanation too upsetting to consider. So this line of reasoning continues to get harped on.

Cyph0n 10y ago

I agree that there is definitely a reason why humans use torture in general. What I meant by "no reason" is that there was usually no immediate need for torture (confession, security threat, etc.) in the case of political prisoners in Tunisia. I however disagree that it's "usually" done for enjoyment. My belief is that the primary motivation for torturers is either obeying the chain of command, or genuine belief that what they're doing is for some greater good. Actually, one of the victims who spoke during the first truth commission session said that his only request was that his torturers come forward and explain why they had to sexually abuse him. He said that he understood the use of other forms of torture, but he felt that sexual abuse was just too much and simply unnecessary. I last heard that some of his torturers approached the truth commission (anonymously) in compliance with his request.

newswriter99 10y ago

But do you think there's some sort of gain for a person or someone in a society to enjoy torture? Obviously if everyone did it would lead to chaos, but is it possible that torture is, at some point, necessary?

13of40 10y ago
People seem to have an instinct for it, but maybe it was something that helped us a million years ago but isn't compatible with modern human life.