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One of the most disappointing things about the last election cycle in the U.S. and Brexit here in the U.K. has been people happily accepting euphemism and hyper

One of the most disappointing things about the last election cycle in the U.S. and Brexit here in the U.K. has been people happily accepting euphemism and hyperbole as part of political/social rhetoric. Maybe it's been happening for a while, but to me it felt like a sudden shift. Bannon is a "white supremacist" because he was accused of making a single antisemitic remark by his ex-wife, during divorce proceedings, which he denies. Trump is a "fascist" and a "white nationalist" because he wants to bring down legal and illegal migration, and is skeptical of Islam's role in modern day terrorism. People who voted for the U.K. to remain in the EU are being branded "enemies of democracy" because they're pleased that the representatives elected to parliament will get final say on what was a non-binding referendum, in a country which is not a plebiscite. "Genocide" is being used on Twitter to describe the decline of the white race as a % of the population as a whole in North America, despite the fact that genocide is a legal term which the UN's OSAPG defines as requiring dolus specialis. I.e. to believe it's actually genocide you have to believe that not only are actions being undertaken which singularly target and try to kill white folks, but also that there is a specific intent from those in power to do so: that the tens and thousands of white people in government, the CIA, the NSA, etc. are trying to kill themselves off. Maybe it's just that compared to the atrocities of the early twentieth century the bar is now comparatively low, and what constituted "disaster" in 1935 is incomparable to what constitutes a disaster in 2016. But it feels like we're not using the precision and care we should with words.

smcl 10y ago
Trump was called a fascist because he wanted to create a registry of muslims and spent a good while castigating Mexicans before somehow attempting to walk it back. He was called a white nationalist because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke. I do think people are often too quick to go to extremes when using terms like "fascist" and "socialist" (abused by both sides), but I don't think it's a stretch to start applying those to Trump.
- ryanlol 10y ago
  >because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke. Did he? I haven't really followed this, but I can't remember seeing anything even remotely suggesting this.
  - smrtinsert 10y ago
    He regularly retweeted white nationalist posts.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - ryanlol 10y ago
      David Duke was specified, even though all evidence points toward that accusation being entirely fabricated. It seems like he used to retweet lots of random people, was he regularly retweeting any specific white nationalists or specifically white nationalist content?
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  >He was called a white nationalist because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke. Can explain what you mean by the use of the word "courted"? I'm not overly familiar with the ordeal, but according to this from the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/01/donald-trump-and-david-duke-for-the-record/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/... It doesn't sound like he is attaching himself to David Duke in any way. Politicians (everyone, really) have to communicate with people whose politics they may or may not agree with.
  - georgespencer 10y ago
    Bingo. There's a huge leap from "someone endorsed or voted for Trump" to "Trump is a white nationalist". Look at Bannon as an example. If he's an antisemite -- truly -- he's going to have real problems working in an administration with Trump's observant Jewish son-in-law.
beepboopbeep 10y ago
Calling everyone and everything "Hitler" is hyperbole. Calling out behaviors, statements, and actions that align with fascism or historical precedents of fascism as such, would seem perfectly reasonable.
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  Within the context of fleeing a country, I think the analogy is inappropriate. Worse, it's numbing. If you're at the fleeing stage, it's too late to do anything from inside.
__jal 10y ago
The solution is not to overcorrect and massively downplay. The reaction to Bannon is not because of a single incident. Go peruse breitbart.com to take in some of his editorial direction - be sure to check the 'black crime' tag. The reaction to Trump is not about a bland policy disagreement; the reaction is to claims of "Mexican rapists" and promises (revokable depending on moon-phase, apparently) to target Muslim immigrants specifically. You are correct that nobody is firing up the Zyclon-B factories right now, and nobody knows what will actually happen. But concerns about the use of hyperbole cannot be an excuse to downplay people's clear words and actions. Doing so falls for a rhetorical strategy called the Overton Window that's been used successfully for quite some time. Look it up if you're not familiar with it, and view the history of a hot-button issue of your choosing through that lens. It works, and it leads to extremism.
- georgespencer 10y ago
  > The reaction to Bannon is not because of a single incident. Go peruse breitbart.com to take in some of his editorial direction - be sure to check the 'black crime' tag. That doesn't make him a white supremacist I'm afraid. There is a level of precision one would commonly associate with that term which is not simply the result of him allowing neoconservative interpretations of crime statistics.

smcl 10y ago

Trump was called a fascist because he wanted to create a registry of muslims and spent a good while castigating Mexicans before somehow attempting to walk it back. He was called a white nationalist because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke. I do think people are often too quick to go to extremes when using terms like "fascist" and "socialist" (abused by both sides), but I don't think it's a stretch to start applying those to Trump.

ryanlol 10y ago
>because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke. Did he? I haven't really followed this, but I can't remember seeing anything even remotely suggesting this.
- smrtinsert 10y ago
  He regularly retweeted white nationalist posts.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ryanlol 10y ago
    David Duke was specified, even though all evidence points toward that accusation being entirely fabricated. It seems like he used to retweet lots of random people, was he regularly retweeting any specific white nationalists or specifically white nationalist content?
forgetsusername 10y ago
>He was called a white nationalist because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke. Can explain what you mean by the use of the word "courted"? I'm not overly familiar with the ordeal, but according to this from the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/01/donald-trump-and-david-duke-for-the-record/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/... It doesn't sound like he is attaching himself to David Duke in any way. Politicians (everyone, really) have to communicate with people whose politics they may or may not agree with.
- georgespencer 10y ago
  Bingo. There's a huge leap from "someone endorsed or voted for Trump" to "Trump is a white nationalist". Look at Bannon as an example. If he's an antisemite -- truly -- he's going to have real problems working in an administration with Trump's observant Jewish son-in-law.

beepboopbeep 10y ago

Calling everyone and everything "Hitler" is hyperbole. Calling out behaviors, statements, and actions that align with fascism or historical precedents of fascism as such, would seem perfectly reasonable.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
Within the context of fleeing a country, I think the analogy is inappropriate. Worse, it's numbing. If you're at the fleeing stage, it's too late to do anything from inside.

__jal 10y ago

The solution is not to overcorrect and massively downplay. The reaction to Bannon is not because of a single incident. Go peruse breitbart.com to take in some of his editorial direction - be sure to check the 'black crime' tag. The reaction to Trump is not about a bland policy disagreement; the reaction is to claims of "Mexican rapists" and promises (revokable depending on moon-phase, apparently) to target Muslim immigrants specifically. You are correct that nobody is firing up the Zyclon-B factories right now, and nobody knows what will actually happen. But concerns about the use of hyperbole cannot be an excuse to downplay people's clear words and actions. Doing so falls for a rhetorical strategy called the Overton Window that's been used successfully for quite some time. Look it up if you're not familiar with it, and view the history of a hot-button issue of your choosing through that lens. It works, and it leads to extremism.

georgespencer 10y ago
> The reaction to Bannon is not because of a single incident. Go peruse breitbart.com to take in some of his editorial direction - be sure to check the 'black crime' tag. That doesn't make him a white supremacist I'm afraid. There is a level of precision one would commonly associate with that term which is not simply the result of him allowing neoconservative interpretations of crime statistics.