10 ms·

The story begins around 18:30. After listening to these folks explain the situation of refugees and their legal status in HK, one wonders a bit why EJS decided

by lvs 10y ago

The story begins around 18:30. After listening to these folks explain the situation of refugees and their legal status in HK, one wonders a bit why EJS decided to go there as his first stop.

rangibaby 10y ago
There is a short list of countries that won't actively help the US, be bullied into helping the US, and be able to protect defectors from the CIA. China is vulnerable to economic pressure from the US, Russia is to a lesser extent.
sfifs 10y ago
Well apart from China (which rules Hong Kong) or Russia, where else would he go? Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades).
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  > Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades). India didn't exactly have to put anything on the line for this considering the Dalai Lama was sponsored by the CIA when he first went into exile... Edit - downvotes but no response? It's well known that the CIA was involved in the Tibetan uprising that forced the Dalai Lama into exile, and that he was on their payroll at the time. Not even conspiracy theory stuff, just documented history.
  - dandelion_lover 10y ago
    >just documented history People from HN expect links when you use such words. Could be the reason for downvotes I guess.
    - nothrabannosir 10y ago
      There is a point where that stops, no? I mean we don't provide links to the wikipedia page for the Holocaust... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program
      - 086421357909764 10y ago
        The holocaust is also a widely know historical incident where as Tibet's struggles, while known by a few, aren't as wide nor as strong a historical impact to the globe.
    - Spooky23 10y ago
      This is common knowledge if you're even remotely aware of Tibet issues. It's an easy thing to forget that not everyone knows about this stuff. At my university in the 90s, Free Tibet was a thing and it was impossible to not learn about!
- pcr0 10y ago
  China doesn't rule HK, at least until 2047.
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
I work with some wealthy people. This is a fun topic and favourite topic--if the U.S. fell to fascism, where would you go. The most popular answe is Argentina. The most interesting is Kerala.
- deepakprakash 10y ago
  I am from Kerala and genuinely curious - why Kerala? And why Argentina for that matter?
  - Evgeny 10y ago
    I have never heard the name before, but: Kerala has the lowest positive population growth rate in India, 3.44%; highest Human Development Index (HDI), 0.790 in 2011; the highest literacy rate, 93.91% in the 2011 census; the highest life expectancy, 77 years; and the highest sex ratio, 1,084 women per 1000 men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala Interesting!
    - deepakprakash 10y ago
      Yup, we managed to get some things right. Interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model
  - JumpCrisscross 10y ago
    Far away from where American agents could find, or effect force, on you. Militantly independent local governments and financial systems, et cetera.
- lmm 10y ago
  I live in the UK. I always used to think that if freedom fell here it would fall everywhere. Now my government is recording internet history, and censoring depictions of my (harmless but unusual) sexual practices. I'm not yet a criminal in my homeland, but I fear it's only a matter of time. Where do I go?
pcr0 10y ago
He answered this in an interview. "Sure. So there's a couple assertions in those arguments that are sort of embedded in the questioning of the choice of Hong Kong. The first is that China is an enemy of the United States. It's not. I mean there are conflicts between the United States government and the Chinese PRC government but the peoples inherently we don't care. We trade with each other freely, we're not at war, we're not in armed conflict, and we're not trying to be. We're the largest trading partners out there for each other." "Additionally, Hong Kong has a strong tradition of free speech. People think 'Oh China, Great Firewall.' Mainland China does have significant restrictions on free speech but the people of Hong Kong have a long tradition of protesting in the streets, of making there views known. The internet is not filtered here more so then any other western government and I believe that the Hong Kong government is actually independent in relation to a lot of other leading western governments." transcript: https://mic.com/articles/47355/edward-snowden-interview-transcript-full-text-read-the-guardian-s-entire-interview-with-the-man-who-leaked-prism#.YRy6fWhCV https://mic.com/articles/47355/edward-snowden-interview-tran... video: https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whis... As for why he'd go to a place with disappointing refugee policies, I don't think he was planning to settle there.

by lvs 10y ago

The story begins around 18:30. After listening to these folks explain the situation of refugees and their legal status in HK, one wonders a bit why EJS decided to go there as his first stop.

rangibaby 10y ago

There is a short list of countries that won't actively help the US, be bullied into helping the US, and be able to protect defectors from the CIA. China is vulnerable to economic pressure from the US, Russia is to a lesser extent.

sfifs 10y ago

Well apart from China (which rules Hong Kong) or Russia, where else would he go? Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades).

Mikeb85 10y ago
> Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades). India didn't exactly have to put anything on the line for this considering the Dalai Lama was sponsored by the CIA when he first went into exile... Edit - downvotes but no response? It's well known that the CIA was involved in the Tibetan uprising that forced the Dalai Lama into exile, and that he was on their payroll at the time. Not even conspiracy theory stuff, just documented history.
- dandelion_lover 10y ago
  >just documented history People from HN expect links when you use such words. Could be the reason for downvotes I guess.
  - nothrabannosir 10y ago
    There is a point where that stops, no? I mean we don't provide links to the wikipedia page for the Holocaust... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program
    - 086421357909764 10y ago
      The holocaust is also a widely know historical incident where as Tibet's struggles, while known by a few, aren't as wide nor as strong a historical impact to the globe.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    This is common knowledge if you're even remotely aware of Tibet issues. It's an easy thing to forget that not everyone knows about this stuff. At my university in the 90s, Free Tibet was a thing and it was impossible to not learn about!
pcr0 10y ago
China doesn't rule HK, at least until 2047.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

I work with some wealthy people. This is a fun topic and favourite topic--if the U.S. fell to fascism, where would you go. The most popular answe is Argentina. The most interesting is Kerala.

deepakprakash 10y ago
I am from Kerala and genuinely curious - why Kerala? And why Argentina for that matter?
- Evgeny 10y ago
  I have never heard the name before, but: Kerala has the lowest positive population growth rate in India, 3.44%; highest Human Development Index (HDI), 0.790 in 2011; the highest literacy rate, 93.91% in the 2011 census; the highest life expectancy, 77 years; and the highest sex ratio, 1,084 women per 1000 men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala Interesting!
  - deepakprakash 10y ago
    Yup, we managed to get some things right. Interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  Far away from where American agents could find, or effect force, on you. Militantly independent local governments and financial systems, et cetera.
lmm 10y ago
I live in the UK. I always used to think that if freedom fell here it would fall everywhere. Now my government is recording internet history, and censoring depictions of my (harmless but unusual) sexual practices. I'm not yet a criminal in my homeland, but I fear it's only a matter of time. Where do I go?

pcr0 10y ago

He answered this in an interview. "Sure. So there's a couple assertions in those arguments that are sort of embedded in the questioning of the choice of Hong Kong. The first is that China is an enemy of the United States. It's not. I mean there are conflicts between the United States government and the Chinese PRC government but the peoples inherently we don't care. We trade with each other freely, we're not at war, we're not in armed conflict, and we're not trying to be. We're the largest trading partners out there for each other." "Additionally, Hong Kong has a strong tradition of free speech. People think 'Oh China, Great Firewall.' Mainland China does have significant restrictions on free speech but the people of Hong Kong have a long tradition of protesting in the streets, of making there views known. The internet is not filtered here more so then any other western government and I believe that the Hong Kong government is actually independent in relation to a lot of other leading western governments." transcript: https://mic.com/articles/47355/edward-snowden-interview-transcript-full-text-read-the-guardian-s-entire-interview-with-the-man-who-leaked-prism#.YRy6fWhCV https://mic.com/articles/47355/edward-snowden-interview-tran... video: https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whis... As for why he'd go to a place with disappointing refugee policies, I don't think he was planning to settle there.