6 ms·

...or scrap the current First-past-the-post system and do it like the rest of the EU countries do with either of these systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%

...or scrap the current First-past-the-post system and do it like the rest of the EU countries do with either of these systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Hondt_method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Hondt_method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sainte-Lagu%C3%AB_method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sainte-Lagu%C3%AB_method

gaius 17y ago
The way it works in the UK is that you vote for the person you want to represent you - your MP - and the party with the majority of MPs forms the government. Your MP represents your constituency - your local area. PR is a bad system because it decouples the government from local representatives. Instead you get a list of people none of whom may have any knowledge of or interest in issues that affect your local area.
- axod 17y ago
  Also there are issues such as BNP would have got 6 seats under Proportional Representation - extremist parties get representation in government.
  - mantas 17y ago
    And..? BNP are not extremists. They're not blowing up Brussel to get UK out of EU. It's democracy and free speech after all.
- GFischer 17y ago
  In my country (Uruguay) we have proportional representation by region - each region has a number of allotted representatives, and they are assigned with proportional representation. So they have knowledge of issues in the (broad) area.
  - gaius 17y ago
    OK, but how big is a "region"? My constituency is the town I live in. The point of the UK system is that a local level you are voting for the individual person you want to represent you. Sure they are usually a member of a party, but they don't necessarily have to have a history of toeing the party line. This does create some dilemmas (e.g. if you like your local Labour candidate but hate Gordon Brown, which seems to be a common theme). But on the whole, the local link is important. The candidate from any local area is likely to be just like the citizens who live there. That's how to get true representation.
    - DanHulton 17y ago
      Except if you voted for anyone else but the guy who got in. So what if I have a Conservative local candidate, if I voted LibDem? I'm represented by nobody. We have this same problem in Canada, and it frustrates me to no end. (Our Greens represent 10% of the country and have 0 seats. That's 3 million Canadians with NO representation at all.)
      - wlievens 17y ago
        Ultimate solution: use both systems. Elect half the chamber directly, and half proportionally. Problem solved.
      - gaius 17y ago
        No, you are still represented by your MP! That is the beauty of it. But don't take my word for it: show up to a surgery, tell him or her you voted LibDem and ask them :-) An MP is a delegate from a constituency - and their legitimacy is only that they represent their constituents.
        jodrellblank 17y ago
        I can't make much sense of that - in what sense are they representing me if they side with their party, or on the other hand why are they a member of a party if they don't side with it, but instead take a view which includes that of the constituents who voted against them? If whoever is elected represents you, why aren't they all classed as 'independent'?
- henrikschroder 17y ago
  And how large is you local area? 646 MPs and ~60 million citizens gives about 100000 people per MP, and with first-past-the-post you can then easily have ~50000 people with no representation because they didn't vote for the majority. (Yes, yes, I get your later point how the one elected is everyone's representative, but come on, in reality they're gonna follow their party line most of the time and if that's the opposite of what you think, you are shit out of luck) Contrast that with Sweden where the constituencies and their mandates look like this: http://www.val.se/tidigare_val/val2006/mandatstat/mandfstat_r.html http://www.val.se/tidigare_val/val2006/mandatstat/mandfstat_... I live in Stockholm city which has almost 600k voters and 27 mandates instead of just one. I voted for a smaller party, and they still got two members from my area, so I am represented in our parliament by someone that is both from my area and shares my political views. And so is almost everyone else, regardless of who they voted for. In my opinion, this system is better because you have almost the same benefits as your system with smaller constituencies, but the proportional system doesn't punish smaller parties like yours does. If a party gets 20% of the total vote, they will have about 20% of the seats in parliament as well, which is as it should be.

gaius 17y ago

The way it works in the UK is that you vote for the person you want to represent you - your MP - and the party with the majority of MPs forms the government. Your MP represents your constituency - your local area. PR is a bad system because it decouples the government from local representatives. Instead you get a list of people none of whom may have any knowledge of or interest in issues that affect your local area.

axod 17y ago
Also there are issues such as BNP would have got 6 seats under Proportional Representation - extremist parties get representation in government.
- mantas 17y ago
  And..? BNP are not extremists. They're not blowing up Brussel to get UK out of EU. It's democracy and free speech after all.
GFischer 17y ago
In my country (Uruguay) we have proportional representation by region - each region has a number of allotted representatives, and they are assigned with proportional representation. So they have knowledge of issues in the (broad) area.
- gaius 17y ago
  OK, but how big is a "region"? My constituency is the town I live in. The point of the UK system is that a local level you are voting for the individual person you want to represent you. Sure they are usually a member of a party, but they don't necessarily have to have a history of toeing the party line. This does create some dilemmas (e.g. if you like your local Labour candidate but hate Gordon Brown, which seems to be a common theme). But on the whole, the local link is important. The candidate from any local area is likely to be just like the citizens who live there. That's how to get true representation.
  - DanHulton 17y ago
    Except if you voted for anyone else but the guy who got in. So what if I have a Conservative local candidate, if I voted LibDem? I'm represented by nobody. We have this same problem in Canada, and it frustrates me to no end. (Our Greens represent 10% of the country and have 0 seats. That's 3 million Canadians with NO representation at all.)
    - wlievens 17y ago
      Ultimate solution: use both systems. Elect half the chamber directly, and half proportionally. Problem solved.
    - gaius 17y ago
      No, you are still represented by your MP! That is the beauty of it. But don't take my word for it: show up to a surgery, tell him or her you voted LibDem and ask them :-) An MP is a delegate from a constituency - and their legitimacy is only that they represent their constituents.
      - jodrellblank 17y ago
        I can't make much sense of that - in what sense are they representing me if they side with their party, or on the other hand why are they a member of a party if they don't side with it, but instead take a view which includes that of the constituents who voted against them? If whoever is elected represents you, why aren't they all classed as 'independent'?
henrikschroder 17y ago
And how large is you local area? 646 MPs and ~60 million citizens gives about 100000 people per MP, and with first-past-the-post you can then easily have ~50000 people with no representation because they didn't vote for the majority. (Yes, yes, I get your later point how the one elected is everyone's representative, but come on, in reality they're gonna follow their party line most of the time and if that's the opposite of what you think, you are shit out of luck) Contrast that with Sweden where the constituencies and their mandates look like this: http://www.val.se/tidigare_val/val2006/mandatstat/mandfstat_r.html http://www.val.se/tidigare_val/val2006/mandatstat/mandfstat_... I live in Stockholm city which has almost 600k voters and 27 mandates instead of just one. I voted for a smaller party, and they still got two members from my area, so I am represented in our parliament by someone that is both from my area and shares my political views. And so is almost everyone else, regardless of who they voted for. In my opinion, this system is better because you have almost the same benefits as your system with smaller constituencies, but the proportional system doesn't punish smaller parties like yours does. If a party gets 20% of the total vote, they will have about 20% of the seats in parliament as well, which is as it should be.