7 ms·

It's that what all immigrants do? Uprooting for economic reasons is pretty common, (immigration, children moving away from parents, etc). If anything they (and

by sirakov 10y ago

It's that what all immigrants do? Uprooting for economic reasons is pretty common, (immigration, children moving away from parents, etc). If anything they (and we as a society) should be thankful that there is the opportunity to move unrestricted in a large and diverse nation.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago
You sound like you think it's easy.
- rayiner 10y ago
  It's not easy (immigrant here), but it's better than being homeless!
  - johndubchak 10y ago
    Many are from the area and have lived in the area most of their lives. The current situation has evolved over the last 20 or so years to the point where it has become economically impossible to live because of the "outsiders", from large tech companies, coming in and displacing them. How willingly would you be to pick up and move in this situation?
    - sirakov 10y ago
      These "outsiders" are themselves fellow Americans or immigrants who uprooted their lives in search of economic prosperity. Maybe I am misunderstanding something but is seems foolish to me to sit in a single location and complain that the right economic conditions for my success are not at my current location and refuse to move (especially ironic since we live in a capitalistic market economy, jobs are constantly changing and resources moving around).
      - johndubchak 10y ago
        The article never mentioned they are complaining, IIRC. They are economically displaced. Where would they go? This is a large-scale socio-economic uprooting. Many of them lack marketable job skills and the necessary finances to allow location portability. We're experiencing a very large shift in financial wealth where the level of poverty in the country is increasing at rates not seen since The New Deal and that's the entire point: the Bay Area is an extreme example of this where economic disparity is so extreme. Add to that the socially minded nature of California and you have those people who "complain" of the lack of a social safety net at the Federal level or even a lack of a fair balance of distributing economic wealth fairly. edit: And our "capitalistic market economy" is anything but capitalistic, in fact it is predatory upon the poor and economically disadvantaged. [1],[2],[3],[4] [1] http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/26/american-capitalism-vs-the-free-market http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/26/american-capitalism-vs... [2] http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 [3] http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/making-money-off-the-poor/?_r=0 http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/making-money... [4] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/social-immobility-climbin_n_501788.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/social-immobility-c...
        harryh 10y ago
        There is no meaningful data that backs up your assertion that the poverty rate in the United States is significantly increasing. In fact, the rate has been essentially flat for 50 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Number_in_Poverty_and_Poverty_Rate_1959_to_2011._United_States..PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#/...
        johndubchak 10y ago
        Well, I guess we can cite statistics all day to prove each other wrong, but clearly in [1] from 1990 to 1992 it rose before a Clinton Presidency where it fell considerably (not crediting President Clinton directly but he did produce a large number of jobs during his presidency) before President Bush's contractionary policies started a large increase in poverty again in 2000 through 2010 in our worst recession since the Great Depression. It did, this has improved, however it's structurally temporary. The effects of it are that it's also continually displacing larger numbers of the middle-class as our trade policies are moving what remains of our higher paying manufacturing base, what used to make up that lower to middle part of the middle-class blue collar workers, to lower paying countries. So, if you think, with your single graph that poverty isn't increasing you're not looking at what's really happening structurally in the US economy and with all of the relevant data around you.[2] We have College tuition that is unaffordable and an aging, out of work, unemployed, or underemployed workforce, with skills that have not kept up with the rapid change in the shift of American jobs and poverty truly is on the rise. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/200463/us-poverty-rate-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/200463/us-poverty-rate-s... [2] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/09/03/jobs-s03.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/09/03/jobs-s03.html (Uncertain how credible this site is)
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rinchik1 10y ago
Exactly my thoughts. Cognitive stagnation, inflexibility, absence of basic planning and analysis, religious frames they put themselves in etc etc all these are the factors that don't allow these individuals to break class levels up or even stay on the same level.

by sirakov 10y ago

PhasmaFelis 10y ago

You sound like you think it's easy.

rayiner 10y ago
It's not easy (immigrant here), but it's better than being homeless!
- johndubchak 10y ago
  Many are from the area and have lived in the area most of their lives. The current situation has evolved over the last 20 or so years to the point where it has become economically impossible to live because of the "outsiders", from large tech companies, coming in and displacing them. How willingly would you be to pick up and move in this situation?
  - sirakov 10y ago
    These "outsiders" are themselves fellow Americans or immigrants who uprooted their lives in search of economic prosperity. Maybe I am misunderstanding something but is seems foolish to me to sit in a single location and complain that the right economic conditions for my success are not at my current location and refuse to move (especially ironic since we live in a capitalistic market economy, jobs are constantly changing and resources moving around).
    - johndubchak 10y ago
      The article never mentioned they are complaining, IIRC. They are economically displaced. Where would they go? This is a large-scale socio-economic uprooting. Many of them lack marketable job skills and the necessary finances to allow location portability. We're experiencing a very large shift in financial wealth where the level of poverty in the country is increasing at rates not seen since The New Deal and that's the entire point: the Bay Area is an extreme example of this where economic disparity is so extreme. Add to that the socially minded nature of California and you have those people who "complain" of the lack of a social safety net at the Federal level or even a lack of a fair balance of distributing economic wealth fairly. edit: And our "capitalistic market economy" is anything but capitalistic, in fact it is predatory upon the poor and economically disadvantaged. [1],[2],[3],[4] [1] http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/26/american-capitalism-vs-the-free-market http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/26/american-capitalism-vs... [2] http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 [3] http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/making-money-off-the-poor/?_r=0 http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/making-money... [4] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/social-immobility-climbin_n_501788.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/social-immobility-c...
      - harryh 10y ago
        There is no meaningful data that backs up your assertion that the poverty rate in the United States is significantly increasing. In fact, the rate has been essentially flat for 50 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Number_in_Poverty_and_Poverty_Rate_1959_to_2011._United_States..PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#/...
        johndubchak 10y ago
        Well, I guess we can cite statistics all day to prove each other wrong, but clearly in [1] from 1990 to 1992 it rose before a Clinton Presidency where it fell considerably (not crediting President Clinton directly but he did produce a large number of jobs during his presidency) before President Bush's contractionary policies started a large increase in poverty again in 2000 through 2010 in our worst recession since the Great Depression. It did, this has improved, however it's structurally temporary. The effects of it are that it's also continually displacing larger numbers of the middle-class as our trade policies are moving what remains of our higher paying manufacturing base, what used to make up that lower to middle part of the middle-class blue collar workers, to lower paying countries. So, if you think, with your single graph that poverty isn't increasing you're not looking at what's really happening structurally in the US economy and with all of the relevant data around you.[2] We have College tuition that is unaffordable and an aging, out of work, unemployed, or underemployed workforce, with skills that have not kept up with the rapid change in the shift of American jobs and poverty truly is on the rise. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/200463/us-poverty-rate-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/200463/us-poverty-rate-s... [2] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/09/03/jobs-s03.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/09/03/jobs-s03.html (Uncertain how credible this site is)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

rinchik1 10y ago

Exactly my thoughts. Cognitive stagnation, inflexibility, absence of basic planning and analysis, religious frames they put themselves in etc etc all these are the factors that don't allow these individuals to break class levels up or even stay on the same level.