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If this was a normal case of not being able to run a game because I don't have the horsepower, I might agree, but it isn't. The Intel GPUs are plenty powerful

by brandur 10y ago

If this was a normal case of not being able to run a game because I don't have the horsepower, I might agree, but it isn't. The Intel GPUs are plenty powerful enough to run the games, but some OS X driver quirk makes them difficult for game developers to support. You can buy a brand new top-of-the-line Apple laptop (e.g. 13" of the new MBP line), and still not be able to play. Here's a thread of someone complaining about it for The Talos Principle for example [1]. When you have a brand new computer, it's not too unreasonable to make certain implicit assumptions about your ability to run a three year old game that ostensibly is supported by your OS. For the case of many games for Steam on Mac though, that instinct would be wrong. It's not the end of the world, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a customer to expect a refund if it happens [2]. Given that probably the vast majority of Macs sold today have only an integrated Intel GPU, Steam should really be going a step further here by either removing the Apple logo from them, or putting a caution sign through it. It's just too easy of a mistake for a customer to make, and there are so many potential buyers to make it. A tiny footnote in the system requirements isn't enough. [1] https://steamcommunity.com/app/257510/discussions/0/626329187072691462/ https://steamcommunity.com/app/257510/discussions/0/62632918... [2] And as mentioned above, Steam finally does offer refunds now, but they didn't for most of the platform's history.

izacus 10y ago
> The Intel GPUs are plenty powerful enough to run the games, but some OS X driver quirk makes them difficult for game developers to support. You can buy a brand new top-of-the-line Apple laptop (e.g. 13" of the new MBP line), and still not be able to play. Here's a thread of someone complaining about it for The Talos Principle for example [1]. They're really not. They may play most of the smaller games, but the AAA blockbusters will hugely struggle on anything but the Iris Pro. Especially if we take into account the additional ~30% OpenGL performance penalty on macOS vs. Windows.
- brandur 10y ago
  > They're really not. They may play most of the smaller games, but the AAA blockbusters will hugely struggle on anything but the Iris Pro. You've refuted a claim that I didn't make. I mentioned The Talos Principle specifically. The game is perfectly playable on an Intel GPU with smooth graphics throughout until you run into graphical glitches ~20 minutes in which have the effect of immediately killing any fun that you might have been having. They're not a performance problem. Of course Intel GPUs aren't powerful enough to play modern AAA blockbusters [1]. The companies making these are well aware of this too, and don't release them for Mac, with a Windows/PS4/Xbox One spread being pretty much universally standard these days. [1] With a few exceptions where huge effort has been invested to have games degrade gracefully for older/underpowered hardware. A Starcraft 2 for example.

by brandur 10y ago

izacus 10y ago

> The Intel GPUs are plenty powerful enough to run the games, but some OS X driver quirk makes them difficult for game developers to support. You can buy a brand new top-of-the-line Apple laptop (e.g. 13" of the new MBP line), and still not be able to play. Here's a thread of someone complaining about it for The Talos Principle for example [1]. They're really not. They may play most of the smaller games, but the AAA blockbusters will hugely struggle on anything but the Iris Pro. Especially if we take into account the additional ~30% OpenGL performance penalty on macOS vs. Windows.

brandur 10y ago
> They're really not. They may play most of the smaller games, but the AAA blockbusters will hugely struggle on anything but the Iris Pro. You've refuted a claim that I didn't make. I mentioned The Talos Principle specifically. The game is perfectly playable on an Intel GPU with smooth graphics throughout until you run into graphical glitches ~20 minutes in which have the effect of immediately killing any fun that you might have been having. They're not a performance problem. Of course Intel GPUs aren't powerful enough to play modern AAA blockbusters [1]. The companies making these are well aware of this too, and don't release them for Mac, with a Windows/PS4/Xbox One spread being pretty much universally standard these days. [1] With a few exceptions where huge effort has been invested to have games degrade gracefully for older/underpowered hardware. A Starcraft 2 for example.