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> Nobody ever told a student to work on a term paper at a singles bar. Counterexample: In college I did most of my work in our library, which was of course an

by aqme28 10y ago

> Nobody ever told a student to work on a term paper at a singles bar. Counterexample: In college I did most of my work in our library, which was of course an open layout.

dasmoth 10y ago
Libraries have slightly different rules to the average open plan office: in particular, there's a fairly strong expectation of silence and if you can hear people talking in the distance, it's relatively unlikely that the conversation directly affects your project -- so less of an urge to tune in. There are often (although, I know, not always) some kind of alcoves to hide if you don't like open-back visibility, too. (Some of the "positive" reports I've heard about open offices at, e.g., Facebook make it sound like they come with expectations of quiet that are as strong as a typical library. ...)
agentgt 10y ago
Counter counter example: my college had a library and it was hardly open layout. It was a giant maze of rooms. With the exception of the entrance the only libraries I can think of that are sort of open are ironically old famous ones and even those have pockets of rooms. The stacked shelves basically create rooms. It would be like calling cubicles open layout.
chris_7 10y ago
Personally I always just used my apartment (dual monitors, good chair) and found the attraction to the library strange, but... presumably people treated it like... a library? There were no dogs running around. No one played music. No one held conversations or borderline meetings over your head? No one played the drums on their desk or hummed along with their music? If these rules were violated, I assume you'd get kicked out, although no one did, because that's how you behave in a library.My library did have study rooms that you could go into for your study groups, etc. These are not things that you can expect in an open office. If people treated them like libraries, and the offenders were kicked out (fired, I guess?), they'd be a lot more tolerable. Also, stacks kill sound. I can hear people running a coffee grinder in the kitchen (dude, just sleep more!).
ClayFerguson 10y ago
Great you've proven the problem is not the physical arrangement but the noise level. You think you are providing a counter argument, but you are not, you are helping support the main idea that open layout does NOT help productivity BECAUSE of the noise level, as the primary reason. Of course it's a bit uncomfortable for most to be bumping elbows with others, and having the constant 'motion' of things going on in your peripheral vision, and zero privacy, but the biggest hindrance of open layout is noise, which is precisely why in libraries you are not allowed to make noise, and even talking at a normal level is (and should be) considered too much noise. Using the library example is the perfect analogy to help teach dumb employers how their open layout sucks big time. And as another post on here already said the REAL reason employers do it is to save on their burn rate by packing as many humans into as small a sardine can as possible, just like the airlines make millions by shrinking your legroom by a millimeter.

by aqme28 10y ago

> Nobody ever told a student to work on a term paper at a singles bar. Counterexample: In college I did most of my work in our library, which was of course an open layout.

dasmoth 10y ago

Libraries have slightly different rules to the average open plan office: in particular, there's a fairly strong expectation of silence and if you can hear people talking in the distance, it's relatively unlikely that the conversation directly affects your project -- so less of an urge to tune in. There are often (although, I know, not always) some kind of alcoves to hide if you don't like open-back visibility, too. (Some of the "positive" reports I've heard about open offices at, e.g., Facebook make it sound like they come with expectations of quiet that are as strong as a typical library. ...)

agentgt 10y ago

Counter counter example: my college had a library and it was hardly open layout. It was a giant maze of rooms. With the exception of the entrance the only libraries I can think of that are sort of open are ironically old famous ones and even those have pockets of rooms. The stacked shelves basically create rooms. It would be like calling cubicles open layout.

chris_7 10y ago

Personally I always just used my apartment (dual monitors, good chair) and found the attraction to the library strange, but... presumably people treated it like... a library? There were no dogs running around. No one played music. No one held conversations or borderline meetings over your head? No one played the drums on their desk or hummed along with their music? If these rules were violated, I assume you'd get kicked out, although no one did, because that's how you behave in a library.My library did have study rooms that you could go into for your study groups, etc. These are not things that you can expect in an open office. If people treated them like libraries, and the offenders were kicked out (fired, I guess?), they'd be a lot more tolerable. Also, stacks kill sound. I can hear people running a coffee grinder in the kitchen (dude, just sleep more!).

ClayFerguson 10y ago

Great you've proven the problem is not the physical arrangement but the noise level. You think you are providing a counter argument, but you are not, you are helping support the main idea that open layout does NOT help productivity BECAUSE of the noise level, as the primary reason. Of course it's a bit uncomfortable for most to be bumping elbows with others, and having the constant 'motion' of things going on in your peripheral vision, and zero privacy, but the biggest hindrance of open layout is noise, which is precisely why in libraries you are not allowed to make noise, and even talking at a normal level is (and should be) considered too much noise. Using the library example is the perfect analogy to help teach dumb employers how their open layout sucks big time. And as another post on here already said the REAL reason employers do it is to save on their burn rate by packing as many humans into as small a sardine can as possible, just like the airlines make millions by shrinking your legroom by a millimeter.