5 ms·

Would be nice to see this displayed relative to population/demand. France looking good but they're paying for that green color.

txdv 10y ago
How are they paying? Germany pays for no nuclear, that is for sure.
masklinn 10y ago
> France looking good but they're paying for that green color. French electricity prices to households are below european average and half the German or Danish prices. They're not the lowest in the EU but they're the lowest in Western Europe — unless you include scandinavia and even then they're competitive: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_and_gas_prices,_second_half_of_year,_2013–15_(EUR_per_kWh)_YB16.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... French prices are lower than Belgium's, Denmark's, Germany's, Ireland's, Italy's, Spain's, Luxemburg's (by a hair), the Netherlands's, Austria's, Portugal's and the UK's. Higher than Finland's or Norway's but lower than Sweden's. And of course the french nuclear program was never about prices, exportable industry or ecology (though these are nice side-effects, sadly european greens never understood the last one, even now they're pushing the french towards phasing out nuclear), it was about energy independence following the 1973 Oil Crisis, I believe France is one of the few countries (if not the only one) which ignored the 80s oil glut (possibly due to the investment it had made in the 70s) and stayed the course.
- wiuhilfhuegihuf 10y ago
  they mean the cost of the nuclear plants (construction, decommissioning, waste-storage and security) not the price of the electricity
  - masklinn 10y ago
    That's nonsensical, the cost of the nuclear plant is capital investment which is included in the price of the electricity. If the country needed it due to "the cost of the nuclear plant" it would raise its prices (again electricity prices in France are lower than in every single one of its neighbours, to which the country generally exports electricity incidentally).
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - dbdr 10y ago
      It's not easy to estimate the cost of decommissioning and waste storage over very long periods, so it is very possible that those cost are far from reflected in the current prices, by mistake or for political reasons.
open-source-ux 10y ago
Worth looking at this: Electricity prices for household consumers [EU], second half 2015 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers,_second_half_2015_(%C2%B9)_(EUR_per_kWh)_YB16.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... The UK has the highest basic rate for electricity, but one of the lowest VAT levels (5%) and no further levies. Most other EU countries have additional energy taxes in addition to VAT. France is below the EU average.
topspin 10y ago
"but they're paying for that green color." Is that bad? I thought it was our moral imperative to pay the cost of low carbon energy. That's how the the high kWh rates in Germany (roughly 40% higher than France) are rationalized, in my experience.

txdv 10y ago

How are they paying? Germany pays for no nuclear, that is for sure.

masklinn 10y ago

> France looking good but they're paying for that green color. French electricity prices to households are below european average and half the German or Danish prices. They're not the lowest in the EU but they're the lowest in Western Europe — unless you include scandinavia and even then they're competitive: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_and_gas_prices,_second_half_of_year,_2013–15_(EUR_per_kWh)_YB16.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... French prices are lower than Belgium's, Denmark's, Germany's, Ireland's, Italy's, Spain's, Luxemburg's (by a hair), the Netherlands's, Austria's, Portugal's and the UK's. Higher than Finland's or Norway's but lower than Sweden's. And of course the french nuclear program was never about prices, exportable industry or ecology (though these are nice side-effects, sadly european greens never understood the last one, even now they're pushing the french towards phasing out nuclear), it was about energy independence following the 1973 Oil Crisis, I believe France is one of the few countries (if not the only one) which ignored the 80s oil glut (possibly due to the investment it had made in the 70s) and stayed the course.

wiuhilfhuegihuf 10y ago
they mean the cost of the nuclear plants (construction, decommissioning, waste-storage and security) not the price of the electricity
- masklinn 10y ago
  That's nonsensical, the cost of the nuclear plant is capital investment which is included in the price of the electricity. If the country needed it due to "the cost of the nuclear plant" it would raise its prices (again electricity prices in France are lower than in every single one of its neighbours, to which the country generally exports electricity incidentally).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dbdr 10y ago
    It's not easy to estimate the cost of decommissioning and waste storage over very long periods, so it is very possible that those cost are far from reflected in the current prices, by mistake or for political reasons.

open-source-ux 10y ago

Worth looking at this: Electricity prices for household consumers [EU], second half 2015 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers,_second_half_2015_(%C2%B9)_(EUR_per_kWh)_YB16.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... The UK has the highest basic rate for electricity, but one of the lowest VAT levels (5%) and no further levies. Most other EU countries have additional energy taxes in addition to VAT. France is below the EU average.

topspin 10y ago

"but they're paying for that green color." Is that bad? I thought it was our moral imperative to pay the cost of low carbon energy. That's how the the high kWh rates in Germany (roughly 40% higher than France) are rationalized, in my experience.