5 ms·

Valve's refund policy is pretty amazing, <2 hours played and <14 days and you're good. Better than Google's even. I've refunded games for being made in 2016 an

Valve's refund policy is pretty amazing, <2 hours played and <14 days and you're good. Better than Google's even. I've refunded games for being made in 2016 and not DPI scaling on 4k properly. Wonder if this guy did something ridiculous and then tried to refund it, it seems like Valve's reasons are conveniently edited out in this very one-sided post.

jazoom 10y ago
This case is for conduct a few years ago. They've tightened up since then.
shakna 10y ago
> 41. As to the Steam Refund Policies, the three relevant versions of those refund policies are as follows: > (1) the 2011-2013 refund policy (1 January 2011 to April 2013) (Court Book p 553); > (2) the 2013-2014 refund policy (April 2013 to 23 July 2014) (Court Book p 555); and > (3) the 2014-2015 refund policy (24 July 2014 to 18 March 2015) (Court Book p 349). There were also four witnesses, who contested that Valve did not abide by the Consumer Law regulations. Anecdata is hardly appropriate as counter-evidence when a judicial hearing has been made. Evidence from both parties was presented, and considered. The finding was in the favour of those consumers who Valve denied refunds to.
- problems 10y ago
  I'm not arguing that they didn't violate something legally, just that it seems stupid. What exactly did they violate? It seems against common logic if they're within the bounds their own website offers here.
  - shakna 10y ago
    > It seems against common logic if they're within the bounds their own website offers here. They violated Consumer Law. They aren't bound by the website, but by that which they provide. They: * Use AUD prices. * Accept AU billing addresses. * Have hardware in Australia Thus, they sell and operate within Australia, and are bound by the rules that every company in Australia are bound by. Thinking they can get away with things that the likes of Microsoft and Apple can't, seems rather shortsighted.
    - timv 10y ago
      > Use AUD prices. Technically, they don't use AUD prices. Everything is in USD, but the prices are regional, so they have specific prices for Australian customers, but charge them in USD. It's an open question as to whether that is done to avoid currency risk, or to mask the fact that they are, in fact, doing business in Australia.
  - ux-app 10y ago
    > if they're within the bounds their own website offers here In Australia "within the bounds of your own website" doesn't hold water. Australian Consumer Law trumps a site's TOS.
    - problems 10y ago
      Sorry, that's not what I meant, I simply meant that their terms seem extremely good to me, so what exactly is the conflict with australian consumer law? Does it expect refunds to still be offered after a quite fair trial period on products labelled as "early access"? That is what seems against common sense to me.
      - shakna 10y ago
        The somewhat arbitrary played <2 hours doesn't matter at all. If it's less than 7 days from purchase, and the product is not as advertised, then the consumer is still entitled to a refund. An example of where this might have come into play in a reasonable circumstance: No Man's Sky, where Steam had to make an exception to their usual refund policy. A product being labelled as Early Access doesn't mean crap. It's still being sold, and purchased. So the consumer still has their purchasing rights. And Consumer Law will always trump anything Steam forces you to sign.
        problems 10y ago
        It still seems a bit ridiculous when it comes to games. Most games can be beaten in less than 7 days and excuses made to get a refund under such laws, especially with early access titles. What's a company to do in such circumstances? It's important to keep a good balance between consumer protection and productive economy. I think the law is in the wrong here, not Valve in this case. As someone else has pointed out though, this may have been prior to Steam's refund policy being added.
        shakna 10y ago
        A change of mind isn't a refund. It's false or misleading advertising that is.
  - aplummer 10y ago
    You can say whatever you want when you sell stuff in Australia, another set of laws (what we are talking about here trumps it). The most obvious case is warranties, you can take an iPhone back after 2 years with a 1 year warranty, and they have to fix it free. You can take expensive TVs back like 3 or 4 years after the warranty ends and get a repair for free.
ehnto 10y ago
It's a systemic issue regarding their treatment of Australian refund regulations. More specifically, Valve have simply failed to take into account many Australian Consumer Laws and have attempted to skirt the responsibilities they have to Australian consumers. They don't trade in AUD, which seems to be their attempt to suggest they do not trade in Australia. But they absolutely trade with Australian consumers to a significant degree and there really should be no issue in abiding by our regulations when it's an Australian customer. They regularly put premiums on titles that are sold in Australia, which puts any claims of ignorance of Australian consumers completely out the window. I really don't understand what seems to be an intentional disregard for Australians from Valve, in what should be a very clear allegiance in like-minded markets. Perhaps it's simply legalese gone wrong, but I really hope they don't burn bridges in their attempt to avoid the fine in court. I have been a very consistent Steam customer, and it is a truly second to none platform, so to see it go in this circumstance would be a real shame.
blakeyrat 10y ago
This is the Origin policy that basically forced Valve to act and implement their own: https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/account/returns-and-cancellations/ https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/account/returns-and-cancellat... * Within 24 hours after first launching the game * Within 7 days from date of purchase * (If pre-ordered) Within 7 days of game release date Valve gives to a little more calendar time, but Origin has no play time limit as far as I can tell.
- shakna 10y ago
  > Within 24 hours after first launching the game That also doesn't seem to fit within Consumer Law... We'll see how long it takes for this one to come up.

jazoom 10y ago

This case is for conduct a few years ago. They've tightened up since then.

shakna 10y ago

> 41. As to the Steam Refund Policies, the three relevant versions of those refund policies are as follows: > (1) the 2011-2013 refund policy (1 January 2011 to April 2013) (Court Book p 553); > (2) the 2013-2014 refund policy (April 2013 to 23 July 2014) (Court Book p 555); and > (3) the 2014-2015 refund policy (24 July 2014 to 18 March 2015) (Court Book p 349). There were also four witnesses, who contested that Valve did not abide by the Consumer Law regulations. Anecdata is hardly appropriate as counter-evidence when a judicial hearing has been made. Evidence from both parties was presented, and considered. The finding was in the favour of those consumers who Valve denied refunds to.

problems 10y ago
I'm not arguing that they didn't violate something legally, just that it seems stupid. What exactly did they violate? It seems against common logic if they're within the bounds their own website offers here.
- shakna 10y ago
  > It seems against common logic if they're within the bounds their own website offers here. They violated Consumer Law. They aren't bound by the website, but by that which they provide. They: * Use AUD prices. * Accept AU billing addresses. * Have hardware in Australia Thus, they sell and operate within Australia, and are bound by the rules that every company in Australia are bound by. Thinking they can get away with things that the likes of Microsoft and Apple can't, seems rather shortsighted.
  - timv 10y ago
    > Use AUD prices. Technically, they don't use AUD prices. Everything is in USD, but the prices are regional, so they have specific prices for Australian customers, but charge them in USD. It's an open question as to whether that is done to avoid currency risk, or to mask the fact that they are, in fact, doing business in Australia.
- ux-app 10y ago
  > if they're within the bounds their own website offers here In Australia "within the bounds of your own website" doesn't hold water. Australian Consumer Law trumps a site's TOS.
  - problems 10y ago
    Sorry, that's not what I meant, I simply meant that their terms seem extremely good to me, so what exactly is the conflict with australian consumer law? Does it expect refunds to still be offered after a quite fair trial period on products labelled as "early access"? That is what seems against common sense to me.
    - shakna 10y ago
      The somewhat arbitrary played <2 hours doesn't matter at all. If it's less than 7 days from purchase, and the product is not as advertised, then the consumer is still entitled to a refund. An example of where this might have come into play in a reasonable circumstance: No Man's Sky, where Steam had to make an exception to their usual refund policy. A product being labelled as Early Access doesn't mean crap. It's still being sold, and purchased. So the consumer still has their purchasing rights. And Consumer Law will always trump anything Steam forces you to sign.
      - problems 10y ago
        It still seems a bit ridiculous when it comes to games. Most games can be beaten in less than 7 days and excuses made to get a refund under such laws, especially with early access titles. What's a company to do in such circumstances? It's important to keep a good balance between consumer protection and productive economy. I think the law is in the wrong here, not Valve in this case. As someone else has pointed out though, this may have been prior to Steam's refund policy being added.
        shakna 10y ago
        A change of mind isn't a refund. It's false or misleading advertising that is.
- aplummer 10y ago
  You can say whatever you want when you sell stuff in Australia, another set of laws (what we are talking about here trumps it). The most obvious case is warranties, you can take an iPhone back after 2 years with a 1 year warranty, and they have to fix it free. You can take expensive TVs back like 3 or 4 years after the warranty ends and get a repair for free.

ehnto 10y ago

It's a systemic issue regarding their treatment of Australian refund regulations. More specifically, Valve have simply failed to take into account many Australian Consumer Laws and have attempted to skirt the responsibilities they have to Australian consumers. They don't trade in AUD, which seems to be their attempt to suggest they do not trade in Australia. But they absolutely trade with Australian consumers to a significant degree and there really should be no issue in abiding by our regulations when it's an Australian customer. They regularly put premiums on titles that are sold in Australia, which puts any claims of ignorance of Australian consumers completely out the window. I really don't understand what seems to be an intentional disregard for Australians from Valve, in what should be a very clear allegiance in like-minded markets. Perhaps it's simply legalese gone wrong, but I really hope they don't burn bridges in their attempt to avoid the fine in court. I have been a very consistent Steam customer, and it is a truly second to none platform, so to see it go in this circumstance would be a real shame.

blakeyrat 10y ago

This is the Origin policy that basically forced Valve to act and implement their own: https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/account/returns-and-cancellations/ https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/account/returns-and-cancellat... * Within 24 hours after first launching the game * Within 7 days from date of purchase * (If pre-ordered) Within 7 days of game release date Valve gives to a little more calendar time, but Origin has no play time limit as far as I can tell.

shakna 10y ago
> Within 24 hours after first launching the game That also doesn't seem to fit within Consumer Law... We'll see how long it takes for this one to come up.