4 ms·

This is so obvious that the majority of top athletes are using some sort of steroids. There is no shame in that.

by somesortof 10y ago

paulddraper 10y ago
[citation needed]
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Not really. Sports in general and the Olympics in specific are very very very dirty. Enjoy watching it. Don't compare it to what you can do if you don't dope.
  - Joky 10y ago
    While possibly true for some specific sports, I highly doubt this is a generality. So +1 to [citation needed].
    - dpark 10y ago
      Every so often there's a big scandal in another sport as pervasive doping is uncovered. It happened to baseball. It happened to cycling. It happening to sprinting. It's also happened to numerous elite individuals across nearly every sport. At some point it becomes unreasonable to believe that only some sports are subject to doping problems when they all have basically the same opportunities, the same pressures, and the same human nature.
      - untog 10y ago
        But the Olympics have doping tests. It's how the Russians were found out.
        dpark 10y ago
        Is this sarcasm?
        brianwawok 10y ago
        You mean years that the athletes can swap samples out?
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      How many people would need busted across how many sports for you to truly admit to yourself that most sports are dirty? 10? 100? 1000? You clearly can't cite what % of athletes are dirty. Many likely get away with it. For proof look at the self admitted cheaters who got away with it for N years. Do you honestly think these were the only dopers? Then look at incentive structure. Go 1% faster and win the race and make millions of dollars. Go 1% slower and get 5th place and nothing. Cheat and get away with it and make millions. Cheat and get caught and you get embarrassed. With this pay stuctute why wouldn't you cheat? It's the only logical path. The best way to figure out this kind of thing is not a complete survey. It's a few data points and some game theory.
sirtaj 10y ago
Oh, there's plenty of shame. First, many athletes are coerced into it by coaches and higher up, to the detriment of their own long-term health not to mention personal integrity and ethics. Second, most sports are zero sum, and each position won by a doper is a theft from someone who didn't dope. I recommend reading the retirement statement[1] that Nicole Cooke wrote a few years ago, which coincided with the Lance Armstrong doping revelations. It's a sobering look into how these dynamics work within a team and sport, and what they do to people who have the personal strength to opt out of cheating. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jan/14/nicole-cooke-retirement-statement https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jan/14/nicole-cooke-r...

This is so obvious that the majority of top athletes are using some sort of steroids. There is no shame in that.

paulddraper 10y ago

[citation needed]

brianwawok 10y ago
Not really. Sports in general and the Olympics in specific are very very very dirty. Enjoy watching it. Don't compare it to what you can do if you don't dope.
- Joky 10y ago
  While possibly true for some specific sports, I highly doubt this is a generality. So +1 to [citation needed].
  - dpark 10y ago
    Every so often there's a big scandal in another sport as pervasive doping is uncovered. It happened to baseball. It happened to cycling. It happening to sprinting. It's also happened to numerous elite individuals across nearly every sport. At some point it becomes unreasonable to believe that only some sports are subject to doping problems when they all have basically the same opportunities, the same pressures, and the same human nature.
    - untog 10y ago
      But the Olympics have doping tests. It's how the Russians were found out.
      - dpark 10y ago
        Is this sarcasm?
      - brianwawok 10y ago
        You mean years that the athletes can swap samples out?
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    How many people would need busted across how many sports for you to truly admit to yourself that most sports are dirty? 10? 100? 1000? You clearly can't cite what % of athletes are dirty. Many likely get away with it. For proof look at the self admitted cheaters who got away with it for N years. Do you honestly think these were the only dopers? Then look at incentive structure. Go 1% faster and win the race and make millions of dollars. Go 1% slower and get 5th place and nothing. Cheat and get away with it and make millions. Cheat and get caught and you get embarrassed. With this pay stuctute why wouldn't you cheat? It's the only logical path. The best way to figure out this kind of thing is not a complete survey. It's a few data points and some game theory.

sirtaj 10y ago

Oh, there's plenty of shame. First, many athletes are coerced into it by coaches and higher up, to the detriment of their own long-term health not to mention personal integrity and ethics. Second, most sports are zero sum, and each position won by a doper is a theft from someone who didn't dope. I recommend reading the retirement statement[1] that Nicole Cooke wrote a few years ago, which coincided with the Lance Armstrong doping revelations. It's a sobering look into how these dynamics work within a team and sport, and what they do to people who have the personal strength to opt out of cheating. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jan/14/nicole-cooke-retirement-statement https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jan/14/nicole-cooke-r...