5 ms·

Why even allow cars in the cities? The air will be cleaner without them. Have parking spaces outside the center and then automatic electric shuttle trains to tr

by acd 10y ago

Why even allow cars in the cities? The air will be cleaner without them. Have parking spaces outside the center and then automatic electric shuttle trains to transport people in. Walking and biking in the city center with lots of green areas. No cars means clean air and safe traffic. Air pollution from cars is a silent killer.

mzw_mzw 10y ago
I'm guessing it never snows where you live, and nobody ever needs to buy more than one bag of groceries at a time?
- nja 10y ago
  not saying the parent poster's solution would 100% work, but as an anecdote: I live in Boston. It snows here and I do often buy more than one bag of groceries at a time. Fortunately, I just walk two blocks down the street and go into one of the two grocery stores that are right there. Compare where I grew up in southern NH: it snows there, too, but the nearest grocery store was a 20 minute drive, so of course I would drive there. Rural NH is not a city, though.
- chongli 10y ago
  Snow is even more of a reason to get rid of cars. A car-less city with underground subways/metros and integrated residential/light commercial districts sounds like a dream. No more shovelling, no more plows, no more going outside during the cold wind! I would love to be able to go from my house to the grocery store and work and the movie theatre (or whatever else) without ever having to set foot outside. This is possible for some people in Toronto and a few other big cities (that I know of) but not the common case.
  - FrancoDiaz 10y ago
    Remember downtown Minneapolis being like that for obvious reasons. I think a lot of people in the Minneapolis area have heated garages so essentially you can park in a garage downtown, walk around the skywalks between the downtown skyscrapers, and never have to set outside. I was only there for the Superbowl and never actually walked one, so maybe it's not so convenient.
- MikeHolman 10y ago
  I live in a city (Seattle) and walk to the grocery store. I usually only buy one bag of groceries at a time. The grocery store is less than a 5 minute walk, so I don't need to make big trips and can make small trips often.
- wott 10y ago
  I lived 8 years above Arctic circle and never had a car. Cycling in summertime, walking in winter, 2 miles to the office, shops half-way. What's the big deal?
  - justinator 10y ago
    I think it's easy to lose perspective of these luxuries that we now see as commodities. We've been marketed to that cars are status symbols of wealth, and that not owning a car means you're somehow a deviant, or too poor to own one - both of which are seen in a negative light. The problem is that personal car ownership with our current technology does not scale up, when taking into account of environmental impact. Nor when you reflect on just how much public right of way we've given up to infrastructure for cars. Nor when you think of how many people die of automobile accidents. Nor or the impact cars have on living in social communities.
- MrFoof 10y ago
  Similar to another poster, I live in Boston. We get a bit more than a meter (~41 inches I think) every year on average. Last year we got slammed with nearly 3 meters (about 9 feet) of snow. Groceries? I walk. Have one option a 15-minute walk away, and two 25-minute walks away. I do 3 to 4 bags at a time, not a problem. I also have subway/bus literally across the street, and right next to highway for when driving to clients makes sense -- but usually can get to them via mass transit (subway and bus) so long as they're in certain areas within about 20 miles (32km) from where I live. Still own a car, but it's only for fun, not necessity and I never use it for errands. If it wasn't for fun, I'd not bother with owning one.
- Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
  When it snows here, the roads become impassable but the trains keep running.
acd 10y ago
There is a mall in walkable distance so I go there even when it snows. At other times I purchase groceries online and there is a home delivery truck that delivers. I think the current delivery truck uses Diesel but it could become electric in the future.
closeparen 10y ago
>Have parking spaces outside the center and then automatic electric shuttle trains to transport people in. I agree, and in fact I do this (park at BART in the East Bay and ride it into SF). The problem is, no one is advocating constructing these systems where they don't exist. They are advocating a direct ban (or prohibitively high tolls and parking scarcity) to prevent people who live outside the city from entering it at all. With maybe some handwaving about bicycles, or an assertion that walking 4 hours a day is good for you. Some of the same people are even advocating that we eliminate the existing parking at suburban light rail stations! Because clearly what we need is even more pressure for even more people to pay astronomical rents.
- NotOscarWilde 10y ago
  > The problem is, no one is advocating this. My city's (Prague's) administration actually supports this a lot, but since the city districts (and not the administration) actually hold power over what gets built in a specific district, and no district wants a big parking lot, the situation remains as bad as ever. Or worse, bad compromises get through -- for instance park at the very edge of the city and then walk 10 minutes to a bus which takes another 15 minutes before you reach any subway station. A great political move to destroy the whole idea.
- ehnto 10y ago
  The issue with things like raising pricing on existing parking infrastructure is that it doesn't fix the issue, it just pushes it down the line. In otherwords, I still park in the city but I also get paid more to compensate for the costs of commuting, because it is still the best option available to me. If they shifted the parking to the fringe of the CBD at various transport hubs and removed it entirely from the CBD then there would be more usable space for city inhabitants, uninhibited public transport and separated foot/bike traffic. All much better options than a car doing nothing on prime real estate for 8 hours a day.
  - closeparen 10y ago
    I agree high quality park-n-ride from the edges is the way to do it. It's also hard to overstate the efficiency of parking smaller personal motor vehicles like ebikes, motorcycles, and scooters, which can do car-level distances comfortably (modulo freight and ice). But given the income required to live in the city vs. in the surrounding area, I'm skeptical that we should be creating more playground for the well-heeled inhabitants of trendy neighborhoods at the expense of people who need to live car-sized distances away from the CBD (and transit hubs) to have decent homes at their income levels. Maybe if we thought the resultant construction could house at least as many new residents as the drivers it displaced.
gvd 10y ago
I wouldn't completely disallow cars (e.g. for the real locals) but I would make it less pleasant (e.g. more expensive) to drive your car through cities. When I visit Amsterdam I don't drive to the city center of Amsterdam, I drive to some train/bus station where I can park the car and get a ride into town that is included in the parking ticket. Parking in the city center is very expensive and it's a pain to drive. So yes, transportation hubs!
ehnto 10y ago
Exactly what I hope will happen here. We are already starting to close down streets to make them walking only, and it's always so much more pleasant to do anything on those streets. Cities are ultimately for humans on foot. For me the priority should be for making better on foot experiences.

by acd 10y ago

mzw_mzw 10y ago

I'm guessing it never snows where you live, and nobody ever needs to buy more than one bag of groceries at a time?

nja 10y ago
not saying the parent poster's solution would 100% work, but as an anecdote: I live in Boston. It snows here and I do often buy more than one bag of groceries at a time. Fortunately, I just walk two blocks down the street and go into one of the two grocery stores that are right there. Compare where I grew up in southern NH: it snows there, too, but the nearest grocery store was a 20 minute drive, so of course I would drive there. Rural NH is not a city, though.
chongli 10y ago
Snow is even more of a reason to get rid of cars. A car-less city with underground subways/metros and integrated residential/light commercial districts sounds like a dream. No more shovelling, no more plows, no more going outside during the cold wind! I would love to be able to go from my house to the grocery store and work and the movie theatre (or whatever else) without ever having to set foot outside. This is possible for some people in Toronto and a few other big cities (that I know of) but not the common case.
- FrancoDiaz 10y ago
  Remember downtown Minneapolis being like that for obvious reasons. I think a lot of people in the Minneapolis area have heated garages so essentially you can park in a garage downtown, walk around the skywalks between the downtown skyscrapers, and never have to set outside. I was only there for the Superbowl and never actually walked one, so maybe it's not so convenient.
MikeHolman 10y ago
I live in a city (Seattle) and walk to the grocery store. I usually only buy one bag of groceries at a time. The grocery store is less than a 5 minute walk, so I don't need to make big trips and can make small trips often.
wott 10y ago
I lived 8 years above Arctic circle and never had a car. Cycling in summertime, walking in winter, 2 miles to the office, shops half-way. What's the big deal?
- justinator 10y ago
  I think it's easy to lose perspective of these luxuries that we now see as commodities. We've been marketed to that cars are status symbols of wealth, and that not owning a car means you're somehow a deviant, or too poor to own one - both of which are seen in a negative light. The problem is that personal car ownership with our current technology does not scale up, when taking into account of environmental impact. Nor when you reflect on just how much public right of way we've given up to infrastructure for cars. Nor when you think of how many people die of automobile accidents. Nor or the impact cars have on living in social communities.
MrFoof 10y ago
Similar to another poster, I live in Boston. We get a bit more than a meter (~41 inches I think) every year on average. Last year we got slammed with nearly 3 meters (about 9 feet) of snow. Groceries? I walk. Have one option a 15-minute walk away, and two 25-minute walks away. I do 3 to 4 bags at a time, not a problem. I also have subway/bus literally across the street, and right next to highway for when driving to clients makes sense -- but usually can get to them via mass transit (subway and bus) so long as they're in certain areas within about 20 miles (32km) from where I live. Still own a car, but it's only for fun, not necessity and I never use it for errands. If it wasn't for fun, I'd not bother with owning one.
Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
When it snows here, the roads become impassable but the trains keep running.

acd 10y ago

There is a mall in walkable distance so I go there even when it snows. At other times I purchase groceries online and there is a home delivery truck that delivers. I think the current delivery truck uses Diesel but it could become electric in the future.

closeparen 10y ago

>Have parking spaces outside the center and then automatic electric shuttle trains to transport people in. I agree, and in fact I do this (park at BART in the East Bay and ride it into SF). The problem is, no one is advocating constructing these systems where they don't exist. They are advocating a direct ban (or prohibitively high tolls and parking scarcity) to prevent people who live outside the city from entering it at all. With maybe some handwaving about bicycles, or an assertion that walking 4 hours a day is good for you. Some of the same people are even advocating that we eliminate the existing parking at suburban light rail stations! Because clearly what we need is even more pressure for even more people to pay astronomical rents.

NotOscarWilde 10y ago
> The problem is, no one is advocating this. My city's (Prague's) administration actually supports this a lot, but since the city districts (and not the administration) actually hold power over what gets built in a specific district, and no district wants a big parking lot, the situation remains as bad as ever. Or worse, bad compromises get through -- for instance park at the very edge of the city and then walk 10 minutes to a bus which takes another 15 minutes before you reach any subway station. A great political move to destroy the whole idea.
ehnto 10y ago
The issue with things like raising pricing on existing parking infrastructure is that it doesn't fix the issue, it just pushes it down the line. In otherwords, I still park in the city but I also get paid more to compensate for the costs of commuting, because it is still the best option available to me. If they shifted the parking to the fringe of the CBD at various transport hubs and removed it entirely from the CBD then there would be more usable space for city inhabitants, uninhibited public transport and separated foot/bike traffic. All much better options than a car doing nothing on prime real estate for 8 hours a day.
- closeparen 10y ago
  I agree high quality park-n-ride from the edges is the way to do it. It's also hard to overstate the efficiency of parking smaller personal motor vehicles like ebikes, motorcycles, and scooters, which can do car-level distances comfortably (modulo freight and ice). But given the income required to live in the city vs. in the surrounding area, I'm skeptical that we should be creating more playground for the well-heeled inhabitants of trendy neighborhoods at the expense of people who need to live car-sized distances away from the CBD (and transit hubs) to have decent homes at their income levels. Maybe if we thought the resultant construction could house at least as many new residents as the drivers it displaced.

gvd 10y ago

I wouldn't completely disallow cars (e.g. for the real locals) but I would make it less pleasant (e.g. more expensive) to drive your car through cities. When I visit Amsterdam I don't drive to the city center of Amsterdam, I drive to some train/bus station where I can park the car and get a ride into town that is included in the parking ticket. Parking in the city center is very expensive and it's a pain to drive. So yes, transportation hubs!

ehnto 10y ago

Exactly what I hope will happen here. We are already starting to close down streets to make them walking only, and it's always so much more pleasant to do anything on those streets. Cities are ultimately for humans on foot. For me the priority should be for making better on foot experiences.