4 ms·

For me this is pretty easy. It's about leadership. The leaders of Go foster an attitude of exclusiveness (just like a month ago they wanted to get rid of the G

by plandis 10y ago

For me this is pretty easy. It's about leadership. The leaders of Go foster an attitude of exclusiveness (just like a month ago they wanted to get rid of the Go subreddit in favor of a solely Google owned option of Google groups). The leaders of Rust are very receptive and helpful to new people. They are on IRC / Reddit and many other channels. I'd much rather invest my time into a truly open language and to me, that is not Go.

NoahTheDuke 10y ago
> (just like a month ago they wanted to get rid of the Go subreddit in favor of a solely Google owned option of Google groups) Wow, really? Do you have a link to that discussion? That's wild.
- gmjosack 10y ago
  I believe this post was stickied at the top of the golang subreddit for a bit: https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eubdp/the_future_of_rgolang/ https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eubdp/the_future_o... It should be a good summary of the event.
atombender 10y ago
> just like a month ago they wanted to get rid of the Go subreddit To be fair, this was a proposal by a single person on the Go mailing list, and it was in reaction to Reddit's CEO publicly admitting to editing other users' comments. The person who proposed closing the Go subreddit was also under the mistaken impression that the subreddit was hosted by the Go team, which wasn't the case. In the end, there was a lot of discussion, and nothing was deleted. Tempest in a teapot, as usual. Go has a serious culture problem, but that's not a good example of it.
- euyyn 10y ago
  What's a good example of it?
  - lobster_johnson 10y ago
    I don't want to single out anyone or any specific projects, so this is going to be a generalization, but since you asked: In my experience, there's a lot of hostility and arrogance. More than in any other community, I've seen Go developers shut down discussion by closing comment threads on Github; reject pull requests and refuse to debate the merits of the change; castigate people for "not following proper procedure"; and being dismissive or contemptuous instead of humble when they fail to understand a problem that is being discussed (on, say, the official Go Slack channel). My very personal hypothesis is that this is a case of mirroring. The Go development team may be said to have a laconic, authoritarian style, which is, of course, their prerogative, and which befits their position; unfortunately, a lot of Go developers seem to be under the impression that they, too, can behave like demigods. In particular, Go developers, more than other cultures, seem to get an ego boost out of telling people "no". But this is a generalization. There are lots of friendly Go devs around, to be sure (I hope I'm one of them). I'm particularly happy with the Kubernetes team. At the same time, I do think it's an issue and one that the community needs to be aware of.
    - neoasterisk 10y ago
      > the official Go Slack channel This is very misleading. There is no official Go slack channel. The slack channel you are referring is just a slack channel and is by no means official. > In particular, Go developers, more than other cultures, seem to get an ego boost out of telling people "no". This is misleading as well. Go was designed from the start to exclude certain features e.g. inheritance and many others. There are usually very good reasons for those decisions that people who've been following Go from its creation know and understand very well. Now what happens when someone who does not understand those design choices comes to Go? They want their favorite feature obviously! When Go members attempt to explain them why something like that does not exist in Go (and probably will never be included) it starts feeling like "no". And people do not take "no" well. They get emotional and fail to see reason. If they had bothered to explore the language or at least read the official documentation and FAQ, that state of mind might have been avoided. Including everyone's favorite feature does not make a language better. Go has created a community around a certain school of programming. Nobody claims that it is better than other schools but it is a fact that it exists. But who is the one that is close-minded in this case? The new person that doesn't bother with the teachings of the school or the school that dismisses the ideas of the new person? Who is really the one that says "no"? From my experience, the Go developers always carefully consider every new idea that is brought to the table. But it is also a fact that after the 10th time you've seen the same idea, you are not going to sit down and spend time considering it. You are just gonna link a previous discussion and say "Sorry this has been brought up before, please check these". How does that feel to a new person? I bet it feels like "no" again.
stablemap 10y ago
I only saw one Go team member speak in favor of deleting /r/golang, in order to dissociate the project from what he viewed as deplorable actions by reddit's CEO. I thought the proposal was rash but I don't believe the purpose was to herd people onto Google properties.

by plandis 10y ago

NoahTheDuke 10y ago

> (just like a month ago they wanted to get rid of the Go subreddit in favor of a solely Google owned option of Google groups) Wow, really? Do you have a link to that discussion? That's wild.

gmjosack 10y ago
I believe this post was stickied at the top of the golang subreddit for a bit: https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eubdp/the_future_of_rgolang/ https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eubdp/the_future_o... It should be a good summary of the event.

atombender 10y ago

> just like a month ago they wanted to get rid of the Go subreddit To be fair, this was a proposal by a single person on the Go mailing list, and it was in reaction to Reddit's CEO publicly admitting to editing other users' comments. The person who proposed closing the Go subreddit was also under the mistaken impression that the subreddit was hosted by the Go team, which wasn't the case. In the end, there was a lot of discussion, and nothing was deleted. Tempest in a teapot, as usual. Go has a serious culture problem, but that's not a good example of it.

euyyn 10y ago
What's a good example of it?
- lobster_johnson 10y ago
  I don't want to single out anyone or any specific projects, so this is going to be a generalization, but since you asked: In my experience, there's a lot of hostility and arrogance. More than in any other community, I've seen Go developers shut down discussion by closing comment threads on Github; reject pull requests and refuse to debate the merits of the change; castigate people for "not following proper procedure"; and being dismissive or contemptuous instead of humble when they fail to understand a problem that is being discussed (on, say, the official Go Slack channel). My very personal hypothesis is that this is a case of mirroring. The Go development team may be said to have a laconic, authoritarian style, which is, of course, their prerogative, and which befits their position; unfortunately, a lot of Go developers seem to be under the impression that they, too, can behave like demigods. In particular, Go developers, more than other cultures, seem to get an ego boost out of telling people "no". But this is a generalization. There are lots of friendly Go devs around, to be sure (I hope I'm one of them). I'm particularly happy with the Kubernetes team. At the same time, I do think it's an issue and one that the community needs to be aware of.
  - neoasterisk 10y ago
    > the official Go Slack channel This is very misleading. There is no official Go slack channel. The slack channel you are referring is just a slack channel and is by no means official. > In particular, Go developers, more than other cultures, seem to get an ego boost out of telling people "no". This is misleading as well. Go was designed from the start to exclude certain features e.g. inheritance and many others. There are usually very good reasons for those decisions that people who've been following Go from its creation know and understand very well. Now what happens when someone who does not understand those design choices comes to Go? They want their favorite feature obviously! When Go members attempt to explain them why something like that does not exist in Go (and probably will never be included) it starts feeling like "no". And people do not take "no" well. They get emotional and fail to see reason. If they had bothered to explore the language or at least read the official documentation and FAQ, that state of mind might have been avoided. Including everyone's favorite feature does not make a language better. Go has created a community around a certain school of programming. Nobody claims that it is better than other schools but it is a fact that it exists. But who is the one that is close-minded in this case? The new person that doesn't bother with the teachings of the school or the school that dismisses the ideas of the new person? Who is really the one that says "no"? From my experience, the Go developers always carefully consider every new idea that is brought to the table. But it is also a fact that after the 10th time you've seen the same idea, you are not going to sit down and spend time considering it. You are just gonna link a previous discussion and say "Sorry this has been brought up before, please check these". How does that feel to a new person? I bet it feels like "no" again.

stablemap 10y ago

I only saw one Go team member speak in favor of deleting /r/golang, in order to dissociate the project from what he viewed as deplorable actions by reddit's CEO. I thought the proposal was rash but I don't believe the purpose was to herd people onto Google properties.