3 ms·

So true. After 25yrs using pcs/unix/macs, I've come to conclusion that it's deliberate on Microsoft side. They create much more closed, difficult and obscure t

by rdslw 10y ago

So true. After 25yrs using pcs/unix/macs, I've come to conclusion that it's deliberate on Microsoft side. They create much more closed, difficult and obscure technology which needs, training, certification and lot of care (services provided by Microsoft).

quotemstr 10y ago
Trust me: it's not deliberate. There is no conspiracy. Everyone I met on Windows is at least as well-intentioned as anyone working in the POSIX world. The reason Windows has some bad APIs is the same reason Unix has bad APIs: someone bootstraps a system quickly and doesn't see the problems that can arise from their choice of APIs; the system becomes wildly successful; and now everyone has to support these ill-conceived APIs. Sure, Windows command-line argument passing is bad, but have you ever tried using wait/waitpid/wait4/waitid/etc.? That's a nightmare in the POSIX world; Windows has nice, clean process handles, not the garbage /proc stuff that makes it fundamentally impossible to write a safe pkill(1). If you're writing a brand-new system, for the love of God, do a good job of designing the APIs. You will not have a chance to go back and fix the APIs later.
- preordained 10y ago
  Uh, so much truth here. If I added music, this would be like the ballad of software. Once the cement has hardened on an application's design, reinforced with industrial strength needy customers who only want the next feature...that is game, set, match.
- rdslw 10y ago
  Nah, I'm far from consipracy theory here. To list quickly from memory (and my game machine experiences) - all from windows 10 pro. * new install with ms office, I run autoruns.exe and see that I have 70+ things being run on startup. Yikes. Default install. * registry: multiple things, biggest for me: you can't easily move part (or all) of it between machines, due to being tied to specific machine: imagine in unix you can't move whole /etc between to a newly installed separate machine. * still lack of decent package management (check chocolatey (BTW they try to do some work here): among dozens of problems they have, they still (and in fact probably never) can't tell you simple 'list all files of given package'. Don't event want to start laughing about appx microsoft newest invention: it does not return even HALF of default installed apps of new laptop. * logging. During update 1607, process is stuck (6hrs, and still 'please wait'): no simple place (log) to analyze what's happening (and no, eventlog is not such place). All daemons and windows do not have sane logging with enough information constantly being written to logfiles to analyze problem (this is big and deliberate). * file system mess: e.g. system drivers running with kernel permission installed in 'program files' (new dell xps from 2016) and also usual common day programs being installed in c:\windows - while windows happily allows it - again, clean new install :) * naming of services/technologies and their (microsoft) general approach to architecture design (boundaries and namespaces): this is mess, one example among hundreds: check what is short name of background transfer service (the bits one) you need to restart if windows update (sic!) stops working - no, it's not bits or bts :) This is only written on the phone high level things, There is on the net comprehensive listo of 500+ things could have been fixed. So???

by rdslw 10y ago

quotemstr 10y ago

Trust me: it's not deliberate. There is no conspiracy. Everyone I met on Windows is at least as well-intentioned as anyone working in the POSIX world. The reason Windows has some bad APIs is the same reason Unix has bad APIs: someone bootstraps a system quickly and doesn't see the problems that can arise from their choice of APIs; the system becomes wildly successful; and now everyone has to support these ill-conceived APIs. Sure, Windows command-line argument passing is bad, but have you ever tried using wait/waitpid/wait4/waitid/etc.? That's a nightmare in the POSIX world; Windows has nice, clean process handles, not the garbage /proc stuff that makes it fundamentally impossible to write a safe pkill(1). If you're writing a brand-new system, for the love of God, do a good job of designing the APIs. You will not have a chance to go back and fix the APIs later.

preordained 10y ago
Uh, so much truth here. If I added music, this would be like the ballad of software. Once the cement has hardened on an application's design, reinforced with industrial strength needy customers who only want the next feature...that is game, set, match.
rdslw 10y ago
Nah, I'm far from consipracy theory here. To list quickly from memory (and my game machine experiences) - all from windows 10 pro. * new install with ms office, I run autoruns.exe and see that I have 70+ things being run on startup. Yikes. Default install. * registry: multiple things, biggest for me: you can't easily move part (or all) of it between machines, due to being tied to specific machine: imagine in unix you can't move whole /etc between to a newly installed separate machine. * still lack of decent package management (check chocolatey (BTW they try to do some work here): among dozens of problems they have, they still (and in fact probably never) can't tell you simple 'list all files of given package'. Don't event want to start laughing about appx microsoft newest invention: it does not return even HALF of default installed apps of new laptop. * logging. During update 1607, process is stuck (6hrs, and still 'please wait'): no simple place (log) to analyze what's happening (and no, eventlog is not such place). All daemons and windows do not have sane logging with enough information constantly being written to logfiles to analyze problem (this is big and deliberate). * file system mess: e.g. system drivers running with kernel permission installed in 'program files' (new dell xps from 2016) and also usual common day programs being installed in c:\windows - while windows happily allows it - again, clean new install :) * naming of services/technologies and their (microsoft) general approach to architecture design (boundaries and namespaces): this is mess, one example among hundreds: check what is short name of background transfer service (the bits one) you need to restart if windows update (sic!) stops working - no, it's not bits or bts :) This is only written on the phone high level things, There is on the net comprehensive listo of 500+ things could have been fixed. So???