8 ms·

I would never put a closed source hot mic in my house. You can trust big brother all you want, but I'm going to stay clear.

zanny 10y ago
Every smart phone ever can do this. You have no way to verify the mic isn't in use, you have no way to verify cellular data transmission is not taking place, and you have no way to know the modem is not doing a remote execution injection to change whatever aftermarket free software OS you have running on the device is doing.
- mahyarm 10y ago
  Or if the cell phone provider is telling your baseband to execute some random code, or modifying the baseband itself!
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  So just because my phone is potentially not secure means I should just open up my home to all other sorts of intrusion/attacks? Yes, phones generally can do that, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about what the Echo is doing.
  - illumin8 10y ago
    No, it means that you're sitting in your house without a roof, and saying "I would never forget to close my windows during a rainstorm." Never mind the rain is pouring through your roof. You're seriously willing to carry smartphones, which have both microphones and cameras, and give no indication visible or otherwise, of when they are listening or recording or sending data, and run whatever dodgy code some asian device manufacturer wanted it to run, but you won't trust a device made by Amazon that people have run wireshark captures against and lights up with big blue LEDs whenever it is listening. Reality called - it wants the tinfoil hat back.
    - zanny 10y ago
      In defense of the downvotes (albeit its bad manners whoever is downvoting you), camera / mic LEDs are nonsense. They are all software controlled, and the control software is almost always proprietary, and thus you cannot trust those either. Additionally, I'm pretty sure the Amazon Echo is just rebranded third party mic / soc boards put together by Amazon. It is still "asian device manufacturer" firmware.
      - Buge 10y ago
        Downvotes are not bad manners. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 But saying "Reality called - it wants the tinfoil hat back." seems like bad manners to me.
    - CaptSpify 10y ago
      > No, it means that you're sitting in your house without a roof, and saying "I would never forget to close my windows during a rainstorm." Never mind the rain is pouring through your roof. I don't disagree. If there was a legitimate alternative, I would use that, but there isn't. I do everything I can to make sure it runs as much FOSS as it can. > Reality called - it wants the tinfoil hat back. How can you claim that attitude? You just admitted we have 2 giant vectors for attack/compromise, then dismiss them without any reasoning?
      - calibration263 10y ago
        His point is that no one is concerned about the always on hot mic in their pockets, but it's the only thing people talk about with the Echo. Why aren't people claiming that everything you say is recorded on your iPhone or android phone? Or that it's all sent to apple/google? Yet they feel justified in claiming that of the Echo?
        CaptSpify 10y ago
        > Why aren't people claiming that everything you say is recorded on your iPhone or android phone? Or that it's all sent to apple/google? uh... there's tons of people complaining about that all the time. I don't know about you, but that's a constant criticism of both companies that I see.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

zanny 10y ago

Every smart phone ever can do this. You have no way to verify the mic isn't in use, you have no way to verify cellular data transmission is not taking place, and you have no way to know the modem is not doing a remote execution injection to change whatever aftermarket free software OS you have running on the device is doing.

mahyarm 10y ago
Or if the cell phone provider is telling your baseband to execute some random code, or modifying the baseband itself!
CaptSpify 10y ago
So just because my phone is potentially not secure means I should just open up my home to all other sorts of intrusion/attacks? Yes, phones generally can do that, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about what the Echo is doing.
- illumin8 10y ago
  No, it means that you're sitting in your house without a roof, and saying "I would never forget to close my windows during a rainstorm." Never mind the rain is pouring through your roof. You're seriously willing to carry smartphones, which have both microphones and cameras, and give no indication visible or otherwise, of when they are listening or recording or sending data, and run whatever dodgy code some asian device manufacturer wanted it to run, but you won't trust a device made by Amazon that people have run wireshark captures against and lights up with big blue LEDs whenever it is listening. Reality called - it wants the tinfoil hat back.
  - zanny 10y ago
    In defense of the downvotes (albeit its bad manners whoever is downvoting you), camera / mic LEDs are nonsense. They are all software controlled, and the control software is almost always proprietary, and thus you cannot trust those either. Additionally, I'm pretty sure the Amazon Echo is just rebranded third party mic / soc boards put together by Amazon. It is still "asian device manufacturer" firmware.
    - Buge 10y ago
      Downvotes are not bad manners. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 But saying "Reality called - it wants the tinfoil hat back." seems like bad manners to me.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    > No, it means that you're sitting in your house without a roof, and saying "I would never forget to close my windows during a rainstorm." Never mind the rain is pouring through your roof. I don't disagree. If there was a legitimate alternative, I would use that, but there isn't. I do everything I can to make sure it runs as much FOSS as it can. > Reality called - it wants the tinfoil hat back. How can you claim that attitude? You just admitted we have 2 giant vectors for attack/compromise, then dismiss them without any reasoning?
    - calibration263 10y ago
      His point is that no one is concerned about the always on hot mic in their pockets, but it's the only thing people talk about with the Echo. Why aren't people claiming that everything you say is recorded on your iPhone or android phone? Or that it's all sent to apple/google? Yet they feel justified in claiming that of the Echo?
      - CaptSpify 10y ago
        > Why aren't people claiming that everything you say is recorded on your iPhone or android phone? Or that it's all sent to apple/google? uh... there's tons of people complaining about that all the time. I don't know about you, but that's a constant criticism of both companies that I see.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]