3 ms·

Bullshit jobs are about the social order, not about productivity. People can find productive things to do on their own. "Bullshit jobs" depend on economic surp

by beat 10y ago

Bullshit jobs are about the social order, not about productivity. People can find productive things to do on their own. "Bullshit jobs" depend on economic surplus to create work that is not immediately productive in terms of food, shelter, or safety. Most entertainers and craft artists fall under the definition of "bullshit jobs". Fine dining chefs are doing something entirely unnecessary. So are rock stars.

dasmoth 10y ago
It's a couple of years since I read that article but I'm pretty certain top chefs -- who work directly on products that people clearly want a lot -- are the exact opposite of the kind of alienated work Graeber had in mind.
- beat 10y ago
  Sure they are. But those jobs exist because of economic surplus.
  - nopriorarrests 10y ago
    Well, all Apple jobs exist for the same reason.
pessimizer 10y ago
Bullshit jobs are jobs that are not productive at all, or are sometimes actively destructive (in adding layers of bureaucracy) in ways that require other essentially bullshit jobs to counteract. You're talking about something a bit more abstract and puritan. I was a 3602 Clerk, once, which was an essentially bullshit job created to navigate the hurdles presented by a post office clerk assigned to my company, whose skills primarily consisted of sleeping while sitting up, and storing the 12 lbs. of paperwork I generated per mailing in a closet and taking my word for its veracity. That's a bullshit job. I once worked for an agency whose primary job was procuring people willing to, for money, give permission to other people to declare evidence for a quality assigned by governing officials that obligated higher governing officials to give money to the customers of the clients for whom we procured, and whom we sought out to make a living. We were honestly just a conduit for government money that grabbed 3% of the cash that flowed through it. That's an entire bullshit agency. A comedian creates laughs. That's not a bullshit job, that's a good job.

by beat 10y ago

dasmoth 10y ago

It's a couple of years since I read that article but I'm pretty certain top chefs -- who work directly on products that people clearly want a lot -- are the exact opposite of the kind of alienated work Graeber had in mind.

beat 10y ago
Sure they are. But those jobs exist because of economic surplus.
- nopriorarrests 10y ago
  Well, all Apple jobs exist for the same reason.

pessimizer 10y ago

Bullshit jobs are jobs that are not productive at all, or are sometimes actively destructive (in adding layers of bureaucracy) in ways that require other essentially bullshit jobs to counteract. You're talking about something a bit more abstract and puritan. I was a 3602 Clerk, once, which was an essentially bullshit job created to navigate the hurdles presented by a post office clerk assigned to my company, whose skills primarily consisted of sleeping while sitting up, and storing the 12 lbs. of paperwork I generated per mailing in a closet and taking my word for its veracity. That's a bullshit job. I once worked for an agency whose primary job was procuring people willing to, for money, give permission to other people to declare evidence for a quality assigned by governing officials that obligated higher governing officials to give money to the customers of the clients for whom we procured, and whom we sought out to make a living. We were honestly just a conduit for government money that grabbed 3% of the cash that flowed through it. That's an entire bullshit agency. A comedian creates laughs. That's not a bullshit job, that's a good job.