4 ms·

Try going to a foreign country, almost any, and have this conversation. They'll look at you like you've gone insane, really. Every conversation I've had with a

by cmurf 10y ago

Try going to a foreign country, almost any, and have this conversation. They'll look at you like you've gone insane, really. Every conversation I've had with a foreigner about this and they think American's are batshit when it comes to the tipping strategy and how much noodle time and effort we spend on it. Basically it's a type of freeloading. The business manager is dumping off their decision making, verbal and monetary feedback to their employee, onto the customer as if we're the employer (in part). Which is just stupid. It doesn't really give the proper feedback in any reliable sense compared to even a mediocre manager.

BurningFrog 10y ago
I've talked to several people from my home country who won't visit the US because they don't want to deal with the social trauma of deciding who to tip when and why. Someone should look into how much this is costing the US tourism industry. > The business manager is dumping off their decision making The individual business manager is powerless about this. It's an ingrained national culture.
- daveFNbuck 10y ago
  > The individual business manager is powerless about this. It's an ingrained national culture. I've been to restaurants that clearly advertise that tips are not accepted and this has already been factored into pricing and wages. I never try to tip when I go to such a place.
- cmurf 10y ago
  I think it's overwhelmingly a unidirectional expectation. Tippers feel like they ought to tip more than they'd ever defend tipping as a concept. The economic evaluation pretty much shows most people tip the same whether they receive good, average, or poor service. It takes exceptionally poor service to get enough people to lower their tip that the waiter recognizes the negative feedback, and there's probably yet another line below that where they decide to alter their behavior. And in the meantime it negatively reflects on the business overall. Worse though, business managers/owners are responsible for programming their point of sales systems to include tip lines for employees who definitely are not wait staff and thus are subject to the normal minimum wage, not the lower tipped employee minimum wage. So it really is business managers who are stiffing their customers with this responsibility and the ensuing behavior. California for some time now doesn't distinguish in their minimum wage between job types; no waiter there is making $2 an hour or whatever it used to be 20 years ago.
- cyberferret 10y ago
  > Someone should look into how much this is costing the US tourism industry. I for one consider the whole social awkwardness of tipping as a huge negative against revisiting the US again...

by cmurf 10y ago

BurningFrog 10y ago

I've talked to several people from my home country who won't visit the US because they don't want to deal with the social trauma of deciding who to tip when and why. Someone should look into how much this is costing the US tourism industry. > The business manager is dumping off their decision making The individual business manager is powerless about this. It's an ingrained national culture.

daveFNbuck 10y ago
> The individual business manager is powerless about this. It's an ingrained national culture. I've been to restaurants that clearly advertise that tips are not accepted and this has already been factored into pricing and wages. I never try to tip when I go to such a place.
cmurf 10y ago
I think it's overwhelmingly a unidirectional expectation. Tippers feel like they ought to tip more than they'd ever defend tipping as a concept. The economic evaluation pretty much shows most people tip the same whether they receive good, average, or poor service. It takes exceptionally poor service to get enough people to lower their tip that the waiter recognizes the negative feedback, and there's probably yet another line below that where they decide to alter their behavior. And in the meantime it negatively reflects on the business overall. Worse though, business managers/owners are responsible for programming their point of sales systems to include tip lines for employees who definitely are not wait staff and thus are subject to the normal minimum wage, not the lower tipped employee minimum wage. So it really is business managers who are stiffing their customers with this responsibility and the ensuing behavior. California for some time now doesn't distinguish in their minimum wage between job types; no waiter there is making $2 an hour or whatever it used to be 20 years ago.
cyberferret 10y ago
> Someone should look into how much this is costing the US tourism industry. I for one consider the whole social awkwardness of tipping as a huge negative against revisiting the US again...