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Is it just bulk that makes the batteries non replaceable? Putting in charged ones are after all the simplest way to speed up charging if the replacement is rela

Is it just bulk that makes the batteries non replaceable? Putting in charged ones are after all the simplest way to speed up charging if the replacement is relatively simple, and a well proven solution for other battery powered devices.

zwily 10y ago
They are replaceable in minutes: http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-is-dead/ http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-is-dead/ They're focusing instead on fast charging.
- dexterdog 10y ago
  This sounds like a program that was designed to fail so they could say that they tried. I don't see a ~400mi charge from zero ever happening in the sub-10 minute range. A swap is the only way to do that without a major technological breakthrough. Swaps have their own logistical problems, but swapping battery packs is the best solution for cars, phones and anything that needs a battery that can be easily swapped.
  - phil21 10y ago
    I think it's also too new in battery tech for this to happen. Batteries need to become more like a commodity everyone thinks is interchangeable before this becomes truly viable. If I own my car (and battery) I probably take pretty good care of it. Who is to say I'm swapping with a battery that has been poorly cared for? This anxiety alone (justified or not) means a lot of owners won't currently do this. Tesla "tried" to solve this - but if I have to plan ahead for when I want to do a swap it's again a hugely useless service. The entire reason battery swaps would exist, is to make charging an afterthought non-issue. Basically I can see once electric cars get to be the majority and battery tech drives prices down this happening more - probably starts out more like a battery service/extended warranty plan where you pay a monthly fee for a certain guaranteed performance. Then this company will develop the repair/service infrastructure to be positioned to take advantage of any standardized battery swap tech for their customers. It's fun to think about the new markets here, but right now battery packs are more like pets than cattle.
    - jessriedel 10y ago
      What is the evidence that battery-ownership concerns are actually driving consumer decisions? Is survey info from Tesla available?
  - dangrossman 10y ago
    > This sounds like a program that was designed to fail so they could say that they tried You're getting downvotes, but I think that's accurate. Tesla built a battery swap station in order to qualify for extra ZEV credits worth millions of dollars that California was offering as an incentive to develop an EV that could be charged as fast as gasoline cars. They met the bare minimum requirements to qualify for those credits, and the station was likely never used by anyone other than a few reporters, then quickly closed after the credits were earned. The station was "opened" in a way that seems to me designed to ensure nobody would use it: you had to be invited to take your car there, you had to call several days ahead of the time you wanted to do so to make a reservation, you had to pay $80 for the privilege, and you might not get your own battery back. The swap station was located across the street from a Supercharger where you could simply pull in without a reservation and quick charge your car for free.
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  - kylec 10y ago
    Agreed about being "designed to fail". Apparently the swaps cost $60-$80 and were by appointment only. It's no wonder that nobody chose to do it. http://www.businessinsider.com/teslas-battery-swapping-plan-isnt-working-out-2015-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/teslas-battery-swapping-plan-...
pulse7 10y ago
https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event
fossuser 10y ago
They had a swappable demonstration a couple years ago and the model s supports it. Main issue is a social issue - people like to have ownership of their own battery pack.
- IanCal 10y ago
  Perhaps less of an issue with trucks? I expect in that situation it'd be decided much more on economics than personal freedom.
- jessriedel 10y ago
  > They had a swappable demonstration a couple years ago and the model s supports it. This was basically a ploy to get government dollars. The tax rebate per vehicle was partially determined by capabilities the car had theoretically, even if they weren't deployed in a useful manner. http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2015/0312/Tesla-battery-swapping-useful-service-or-tax-credit-ploy http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2015/0312/Tesla-ba... http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-battery-swap-harris-ranch-20150310-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-battery... > Main issue is a social issue - people like to have ownership of their own battery pack. What's the evidence for this? People have no trouble with propane tanks they don't own for gas grills.
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  - hwillis 10y ago
    As in Tesla didn't want to store and insure tons of batteries, especially because their current limiting production factor is batteries. Every battery that can be swapped is one that isn't being used in a car.
- greglindahl 10y ago
  There's no evidence about Tesla owners and battery pack ownership -- Tesla has never offered anything but purchase or lease of the entire car.
_ph_ 10y ago
With batteries the size Tesla has, you really want to take a break after several hours of driving anyway. So the supercharger time adds only little delay to your travel.

zwily 10y ago

They are replaceable in minutes: http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-is-dead/ http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-is-dead/ They're focusing instead on fast charging.

dexterdog 10y ago
This sounds like a program that was designed to fail so they could say that they tried. I don't see a ~400mi charge from zero ever happening in the sub-10 minute range. A swap is the only way to do that without a major technological breakthrough. Swaps have their own logistical problems, but swapping battery packs is the best solution for cars, phones and anything that needs a battery that can be easily swapped.
- phil21 10y ago
  I think it's also too new in battery tech for this to happen. Batteries need to become more like a commodity everyone thinks is interchangeable before this becomes truly viable. If I own my car (and battery) I probably take pretty good care of it. Who is to say I'm swapping with a battery that has been poorly cared for? This anxiety alone (justified or not) means a lot of owners won't currently do this. Tesla "tried" to solve this - but if I have to plan ahead for when I want to do a swap it's again a hugely useless service. The entire reason battery swaps would exist, is to make charging an afterthought non-issue. Basically I can see once electric cars get to be the majority and battery tech drives prices down this happening more - probably starts out more like a battery service/extended warranty plan where you pay a monthly fee for a certain guaranteed performance. Then this company will develop the repair/service infrastructure to be positioned to take advantage of any standardized battery swap tech for their customers. It's fun to think about the new markets here, but right now battery packs are more like pets than cattle.
  - jessriedel 10y ago
    What is the evidence that battery-ownership concerns are actually driving consumer decisions? Is survey info from Tesla available?
- dangrossman 10y ago
  > This sounds like a program that was designed to fail so they could say that they tried You're getting downvotes, but I think that's accurate. Tesla built a battery swap station in order to qualify for extra ZEV credits worth millions of dollars that California was offering as an incentive to develop an EV that could be charged as fast as gasoline cars. They met the bare minimum requirements to qualify for those credits, and the station was likely never used by anyone other than a few reporters, then quickly closed after the credits were earned. The station was "opened" in a way that seems to me designed to ensure nobody would use it: you had to be invited to take your car there, you had to call several days ahead of the time you wanted to do so to make a reservation, you had to pay $80 for the privilege, and you might not get your own battery back. The swap station was located across the street from a Supercharger where you could simply pull in without a reservation and quick charge your car for free.
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- kylec 10y ago
  Agreed about being "designed to fail". Apparently the swaps cost $60-$80 and were by appointment only. It's no wonder that nobody chose to do it. http://www.businessinsider.com/teslas-battery-swapping-plan-isnt-working-out-2015-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/teslas-battery-swapping-plan-...

pulse7 10y ago

https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event

fossuser 10y ago

They had a swappable demonstration a couple years ago and the model s supports it. Main issue is a social issue - people like to have ownership of their own battery pack.

IanCal 10y ago
Perhaps less of an issue with trucks? I expect in that situation it'd be decided much more on economics than personal freedom.
jessriedel 10y ago
> They had a swappable demonstration a couple years ago and the model s supports it. This was basically a ploy to get government dollars. The tax rebate per vehicle was partially determined by capabilities the car had theoretically, even if they weren't deployed in a useful manner. http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2015/0312/Tesla-battery-swapping-useful-service-or-tax-credit-ploy http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2015/0312/Tesla-ba... http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-battery-swap-harris-ranch-20150310-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-battery... > Main issue is a social issue - people like to have ownership of their own battery pack. What's the evidence for this? People have no trouble with propane tanks they don't own for gas grills.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- hwillis 10y ago
  As in Tesla didn't want to store and insure tons of batteries, especially because their current limiting production factor is batteries. Every battery that can be swapped is one that isn't being used in a car.
greglindahl 10y ago
There's no evidence about Tesla owners and battery pack ownership -- Tesla has never offered anything but purchase or lease of the entire car.

_ph_ 10y ago

With batteries the size Tesla has, you really want to take a break after several hours of driving anyway. So the supercharger time adds only little delay to your travel.