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I'm all for saving wildlife but really the problem in Africa is lack of jobs, education, nutrition and infrastructure. If you fix those problems the wildlife wi

by agentgt 10y ago

I'm all for saving wildlife but really the problem in Africa is lack of jobs, education, nutrition and infrastructure. If you fix those problems the wildlife will have a better chance. I have looked into some of the wildlife charities in the past and many of them have not done as well as one would hope and this is in part because it doesn't really solve the underlying problem. Yes it is probably outrageous but increased urbanization and education in Africa would be the best thing for Africa. IMO give money to charities that help build infrastructure, and education. Even food and agriculture charities will massively help as many have no choice but to eat bushmeat [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmeat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmeat

legulere 10y ago
So you're suggesting industrialisation to save the environment?
- agentgt 10y ago
  > So you're suggesting industrialisation to save the environment? There are different levels of industrialization and modernization. Do I think technology can improve things and be more efficient ... I do. Do I think Africa should become like the early industrial revolution... I do not... But I do think it can have modern cities and that in general it would help... I do.
lsd5you 10y ago
That is outrageous? In my view you are skirting the truth (consciously or not). We are so concerned with human morality that we can reach conclusions full of sophistry and half truth like this. Without making a value judgement, the uncomfortable reality is that there are too many people and the most effective policy would be one that addresses human over-population. Yes people could conceivably reduce their foot print by urbanising, but economic growth also has environmental impact - and probably in some unforeseen ways in the region.
- agentgt 10y ago
  At a high level I agree with you and over the years I admit have become soft or I would argue more open minded and even keeled. The need for population control policy has been discussed many times on HN. Some argue technology can fix the problem as well as education others are more to the extreme saying we need almost draconian enforcement. Many scifi writers have explored extreme (and dubious) urbanization which include carbon nano towers (Arthur C Clark Space Odyssey some year I don't remember). Historically urbanization has a cultural impact on lowering reproduction (source needed but I recall reading it I think in the Economist). That is you may not need as much policy as you might think.
  - FrancoDiaz 10y ago
    I'm far from an environmentalist extremist, but at some point in time, increasing population density is going to be the only option.

by agentgt 10y ago

legulere 10y ago

So you're suggesting industrialisation to save the environment?

agentgt 10y ago
> So you're suggesting industrialisation to save the environment? There are different levels of industrialization and modernization. Do I think technology can improve things and be more efficient ... I do. Do I think Africa should become like the early industrial revolution... I do not... But I do think it can have modern cities and that in general it would help... I do.

lsd5you 10y ago

That is outrageous? In my view you are skirting the truth (consciously or not). We are so concerned with human morality that we can reach conclusions full of sophistry and half truth like this. Without making a value judgement, the uncomfortable reality is that there are too many people and the most effective policy would be one that addresses human over-population. Yes people could conceivably reduce their foot print by urbanising, but economic growth also has environmental impact - and probably in some unforeseen ways in the region.

agentgt 10y ago
At a high level I agree with you and over the years I admit have become soft or I would argue more open minded and even keeled. The need for population control policy has been discussed many times on HN. Some argue technology can fix the problem as well as education others are more to the extreme saying we need almost draconian enforcement. Many scifi writers have explored extreme (and dubious) urbanization which include carbon nano towers (Arthur C Clark Space Odyssey some year I don't remember). Historically urbanization has a cultural impact on lowering reproduction (source needed but I recall reading it I think in the Economist). That is you may not need as much policy as you might think.
- FrancoDiaz 10y ago
  I'm far from an environmentalist extremist, but at some point in time, increasing population density is going to be the only option.